NATO - An attack on one is an attack on all. The maritime tradition is probably one of the oldest cultures out there and take this very seriously. Why isn’t NATO getting involved? Is it just not serious enough yet? Do they not care because their is already a US led force in the area already?
Funny that you ask that…from today’s New York Times:
You missed an important clause in the Washington Treaty:
Vessels off the coast of Somalia don’t count.
Not to mention that it refers to one country attacking another country member of NATO. I cannot see how an attack by a few pirates on a ship can “trigger” NATO any more than French tourist being mugged in Egypt would trigger the NATO alliance.
The pirates seem to be motived 100% by money only. Perhaps I haven’t read enough but from all the news I’ve seen they don’t care about politics as long as they get the $$$$$
And NATO is a poltical defence treaty not a criminal defence
When it comes to doing heavy lifting/dirty work NATO = United States.
Fascinating. To be fair NATO’s greatest success was in not having to actually operate in a wartime capacity. More recent actions like the Balkan war and Afghanistan tend to be US dominated primarily because the US is/was the only member that required a global strategic reach/dominance.
From wikipedia’s “War in Afghanistan” page
Left as an exercise for the reader is to adjust for population.
NATO’s reasone to exist was the threat posed by the Soviet Union and with that threat gone NATO has no reason to exist. Except that organizations tend to perpetuate themselves and try to find new reasons to justify their existence.
NATO has been used by America for thing for which it was not intended, and in a way which made allied troops subject to American command without further consultation. This has alienated the allies who have several times complained about American arrigance and heavy-handedness. So, yeah, if you want to start trouble and call the shots you gbetter be ready to do the heavy lifting. If it were up to me I would pull all Spanish troops from Afghanistan. They have no business there except defending American interests and taking flak from American commanders in reward. Fuck that. Let America deal with their own messes. NATO was not intended for this.
NATO is involved, with Standing NATO Maritime Group 1 patrolling off the Somalia coast. It’s currently 5 ships, from Portugal, Spain, Canada, The Netherlands, and the US. (But don’t worry, the US frigate does all the heavy lifting while the others are doing pleasure cruises in the Indian Ocean.)
Sweden is sending shipsto Somalia waters, unexpectedly, though not a member of the NATO, but as an EU member. Of course, the orders are to let the US do the heavy lifting.
Just curious, why did you single out Spanish troops? Are you Spanish or is there something unique about their presence in Afghanistan?
I am Spanish. I might support particular peace missions but Spanish troops in Iraq and Afghanistan have taken nothing but flak from American commanders and I’d just as well tell them to stuff it.
Spain has no reason to be in Afghanistan except to suck up to America and Zapatero, the idiot we have in charge now (we had a worse idiot before), just sucked up to Obama by promising to send more troops to Afghanistan.
If America wants to stir shit in that part of the world let them do it themselves. Spain has no business there. Spain should not be helping America kidnap people who end up in Guantanamo to be tortured. There should not even be the appearance of help to a country which is doing that.
The only, admittedly rather important, justification is that Spanish troops are in parts of the country where there is no fighting and they have stated theirs is a peace mission. They are building schools and hospitals and Zapatero has said he will not send troops to fight. Well, good for him.
Spain has a good record with peace missions in different parts of the world. Maybe because they go in with a totally different attitude. American commanders manage to make worse enemies and even alienate allied troops. Spanish and British commanders in Iraq and Afghanistan have complained about American arrogance and heavy handed tactics being counterproductive. Heck, American military have said the same.
Of course, all that was with Bush, maybe now some sanity will show.
Thanks, that is interesting.
I’ve seen your posts for years, but I did not know you are Spanish.
Well, the first Secretary General of NATO, whose name escapes me now, was reputed to have said that the real purpose of the alliance was to keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans down.
Although the third mission has more or less faded into history, the first two missions are still embraced by the members of NATO. Heck, the main reason there’s so many Eastern European countries who would love to join the alliance is precisely because of those first two precepts.
As someone who is in Afghanistan and has met Danish and Canadian troops, I can tell you that your statement is patently absurd.
As an American, permit me to say that we really appreciate the very hard work being done by our NATO allies in Afghanistan and elsewhere. Thanks for standing with us.
(removed false start)
Hi,
I’ve enjoyed the SDMB for quite awhile now, and this is the first thread that has moved me to post.
I am a serving member of the Canadian Forces, and have deployed to Afghanistan.
I wish to say that my sentiments are accurately echoed by madmonk28 and Elendil, and certainly wish the former a safe trip in the sandbox.
As for the Somali Piracy issue, of which I’ve looked into pretty extensively, the main force in the area at this time is CTF 150 (Combined Task Force 150 - Wikipedia)
Many nations have sent ships to address the issue in the Gulf of Oman, including India, Russia, Canada, the US and many many others. If it seems so absurd that low tech ‘pirates’ can accomplish so much with so little against such opposition, there are two main considerations:
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The various international laws and agreements involved and,
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The desperation of the Somali people, and the lack of alternatives they feel they have to piracy. Recall that Somalia is a textbook ‘failed state’ and has had essentially no government since the early 90’s.
So, not much meat on this post I know, but I just wanted to finally toss my two cents in on an issue that I certainly feel close to, and I hope that should I decide to post again it’s not due to my quick and angry reaction to some people’s perceptions of geo-political power.
Anyone who volunteers to go into harm’s way for the sake of preventing harm to others is a hero. Period. This is not debatable or quantifiable, and you cannot be ‘more of a hero’ then someone else. One country, however powerful and mighty as it is, cannot operate in a vacuum. I have the utmost respect for my the allies of all nations that I was lucky enough to work with or meet.
…plus, there is something about the girls of the French Air Force, and the tailored uniform pants that always made trips into Kandahar so worthwhile… 
Dude keep your ass safe and come home to your family and buds. And if that aint possible make sure its in one of those french chicks beds when her hubby comes home.
Declan