tim314, I think you mischaracterize Obama’s position on gay marriage when you say that he is in opposition to it. You seem to acknowledge that by saying “opposition which doesn’t actually involve wanting to do anything to stop it…”
Please provide a cite where he says that he actually opposes gay marriage.
Between this and BG’s drive-by link defining slang terms and explaining to us just what happened to all the negroes, I have a feeling that a couple of us might need to sleep it off.
Zoe, when I say Obama “opposes gay marriage”, I mean he has said he defines marriage as a union between a man and a woman, and he opposes changing this definition. (At least, officially. I have my doubts about if he means it, especially since he also opposes efforts to write the “man and woman” definition into law.)
See here, for instance.
Actually, Senator Obama has spoken out in support of same-sex marriage before–just not within the context of a presidential election. Believe me, he has worked hard to shore up the LGBT vote and it’s paid off handsomely. It’s just that the rest of y’all don’t notice because he knows how to target his efforts.
No, I don’t have cites. It’s 3 in the fucking morning and I just popped an Ambien. I’ll be asleep by the time I find the cites, and I’ll probably be asleep by the time I finish writ
That’s not what he was talking about. Try reading the quote again when you’re sober:
I’m almost positive that I’ve heard the Obama campaign state their opposition to Propositions 4 and 8 here in California, which are both quite divisive.
That is indeed the official position of his campaign, but the man himself has publicly thrown his support behind same-sex marriage (can we please stop using the inaccurate and misleading term “gay marriage”?) in the past. I think it should be assumed that every candidate’s general election campaign is going to be closer to the center than their actual political ideals. That’s how you win a general election, after all: by appealing to more people.
How is it misleading, exactly?
If you’re thinking it excludes lesbians, that doesn’t seem to be the case.
I’m fine with the term “same-sex marriage”, but it seems like the two phrases are synonymous.
None.
I think Obama sincerely believes marriage is a “holy” union between a man and a woman. However, unlike ultra-conservative Christians, he seems willing to concede that gay people are human, too, and should have an opportunity to enjoy the advantages of marriage without calling it “marriage”.
I expect an Obama Presidency to support civil unions while leaving the definition of “marriage” to the individual States.
That is exactly what it means, but meaning that, it can still be used metaphorically. “The sun” means exactly what it means, but when Romeo says “Juliet is the sun” he doesn’t mean she really is the sun–but neithe does he mean anything by “the sun” other than the sun.
-FrL-
Whether or not he really “opposes” SSM, I doubt his opposition would rise to the level of vetoing efforts by a legislature to legalize SSM or disagreeing with a court which found the right to SSM in a state or federal constitution. However, I don’t think this is an issue that President Obama would have to deal with at the federal level. Even Bush couldn’t get traction on his constitutional amendment with a Republican controlled Congress. And I don’t see even a Democratic Congress trying to repeal the DOMA.
I find it a little hard to believe that the implications of having two “separate but equal” institutions are lost on Obama.
Here’s a really interesting clip from Logo.com where Obama (speaking to the HRC) compares same-sex marriages to his parents being able to get married in the 60s and why he thinks it’s important to focus on getting the basic legal stuff the same for everyone and then the different churches to recognize the unions as marriages or not. http://www.logoonline.com/video/?id=1595149&vid=167938 (Note he refers to himself as a BI GUY! So he’s ALREADY OUT.)
I’d say it’s 25-to-1 against:
He’d be running for re-election in 2012, after all.
He’s an extremely devout Christian, a group not know for their fondness of gays. He’s much more Christian than John McCain. I’m not saying he’s a homophobe - he isn’t - but his opinions are very influenced by his religion, a fact that’s been largely missed since it’s the other party that usually kowtows to the superstitious.
He’s also an extremely devout politician, and there’s not really anything in it for him, so why would he? And,
He can always use the weasel approach of “Civil unions” to accomplish the same practical effects while maintaining a politically convenient stance.
Same-sex marriage does not require both participants to identify as “gay”, any more than opposite-sex marriage requires both participants to identify as “straight”. Cf. Barack and Michelle Obama, at least one of whom is queer.
So your objection to the term “gay marriage” is that it’s excluding, for instance, bisexuals in same sex relationships? I suppose that’s a fair criticism.
I hadn’t heard that. Got a cite?
Congress only has the power to legalize same-sex marriage in DC (which I could actually see that happening w/ a Democratic Congress and a strong yes vote in a local plebiscite). Congress could also vote to recognize same-sex marriage/civil unions, but only for residents of states that allow it. As far the military, Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell isn’t going to last past Valentine’s Day. Then we get to deal with the thorny issue of LGBT soldiers demanding their partners get dependent benefits and base houseing.
Personal insults aren’t allowed in this forum. Don’t imply other posters are abusing drugs or alcohol.
Sorry, I shouldn’t have used the word “abusing” . Next time I’ll substitute “using”
Don’t do that either. Unless it’s a joke, which this wasn’t, telling another poster you think he’s drunk or high is pretty clearly an insult.
Actually it isn’t. It explains why an otherwise intelligent poster is making idiotic posts. I’m sure dropzone wasn’t insulted.
But, I will comply.
I agree, it’s not a standard meaning of the term. I can see it as appropriate to the subject though, once I adjust to it.
What?
-FrL-