It’s possible that the tide is eventually shifting in favor of kneeling to the point where one day an NFL player standing for the anthem may be viewed as doing something more controversial than one who is kneeling (especially if, say, only one or a few are standing while all the rest are kneeling - like how Antonio Villanova (Steelers lineman) was the only one to stand for the anthem a few years ago while all his teammates stayed in the tunnel.)
I would really hope that if support for the message of those kneeling resonated that strongly, we would just fix our country so that we can all be proud to stand for our national anthem again.
Why play the anthem at all? My (Canadian) parents talked about the days when all movies would be preceded by “O Canada”, and then “God Save the [monarch]” at the end. We’ve gotten rid of that tradition - let’s get rid of them at sports events.
Hopefully most of the players are aware that Kaepernick is making more money as a so-called activist than he ever did as a player.
I do want to point out that it is NOT kneeling for the national athem. It is taking a knee. Two very different things.
You must not have played sports. Especially American football. At the end of most practices and games, a coach typically has the players gather round in a circle and “take a knee.” It was recognition of the effort put into the practice/game, give the players a rest, and then the coach would share words of wisdom “or coach.” Something along the lines of “I’m so proud of the way you gave it 110%, that was a great game and/or practice, and you’re champions and showed it by winning gracefully and/or accepted we were simply outplayed today.”
Taking a knee is not a sign of disrespect. It isn’t kneeling. Thanks for noticing there is a difference
What’s your point? Are you saying that Kaepernick kneeled for financial reasons?
Anyway, back to the OP: It has already happened. I’d be shocked if there is ever a live sporting event again where at least someone won’t be kneeling. Today, 8 Formula One drivers had to explain why they stood before the race in Austria when everyone else was kneeling. Ever since the George Floyd murder, every player kneels before English Premier League games. Numerous players playing soccer in the other European leagues wear BLM shirts under their uniforms and show them when kneeling after scoring goals.
It’s embarrassing that so many people in other countries “get it”, while at least 40% of AmerIcans just don’t. Pointing to some subjective view of “tradition” is BS. Here’s some news: we’re less than 250 years old. Most of our ancestors immigrated to this country in the 20th century. We have no tradition! Sports leagues as we know them are less than 100 years old. Kneeling will become the tradition, so that maybe one day kids will ask their parents why everyone is kneeling, and they can be reminded of the nation’s ugly past and prevent it from ever happening again.
Kaepernick didn’t initially sit on the bench for financial reasons, he was just being a pouting baby. He care up with a clever lie after getting called out and turned it into millions, far more than he would ever have made as a backup for a year or two until he washed out of the league.
That is certainly your opinion.
I confess that I’m always rather wary of any expected behaviour in such situations. I don’t like being told how to behave. The standing/hand on heart business always carries with it a whiff of the junta for me. I’m not a fan. Same with people saying prayers or grace, I don’t join in. So I’m very much in favour of people being able to behave however the heck they without having undue conclusions drawn from that behaviour.
The national anthem means very different things to very different people. I can imagine myriad valid interpretations of meaning and personal response that would see people choosing to sit, stand, kneel, turnaround, sing, not sing etc. etc. All power to them.
I’ll do them the courtesy of leaving them to do their own thing and if I feel the need to know why they do what they do, I’ll ask them.
There was an interesting thing at the start of the F1 this weekend where some drivers “took a knee” as a response to the BLM issue and some, for various reasons, did not.
It would be a backward step if, on the strength of that gesture alone, those that didn’t were considered in a more negative light than those that did. The same should apply for all such gestures.
Why? I value all lives, including black lives, and want to support people, businesses, etc that agree with that sentiment. If one person shows support to disenfranchised minorities while another doesn’t, why should I think equally highly of both of them?
Since you asked “Why”? Most people agree that “All lives matter”, it’s a pretty simple concept. But, there are many people who while they say “All Lives Matter” in public amongst their friends when they see stories about black crime in the inner city or police brutalizing a young black male they brush it off and say it doesn’t matter to me because this isn’t happening in my neighborhood. Just let them kill each other, it doesn’t matter.
It's an attitude of it isn't happening where I can see it so it doesn't matter. This attitude leads to a dehumanizing effect of the blight on the black community as a whole. It's their fault that they are poor,why don't they just get a job?
I am half mexican with a white last name who looks white, so I hear this sort of crap all of the time from people. And by the way, Hispanic lives matter too. When people find out I am half Mexican they make a point to tell all of their friends about so they can watch what they say around me.
I see how people are and it’s not pretty a lot of the time. Perhaps you are part of the 90% that truly cares about all people, but there is a rabid 10% that doesn’t give a damn about black lives.
I’m agreeing with you – my question is, if I hold the same values you do, and so does Formula 1 Racer X, while Formula 1 Racer Y doesn’t-- and X demonstrates these values by kneeling during the anthem while Y does not while spouting off some bullshit excuse – why SHOULDN’T I think less of Racer Y? The post I was quoting basically said “Its fine if you want to support X in kneeling but I hope people don’t think less of Y because of it”. Well, I DO think less of Y.
Man, do I need to set up a bot to auto-reply to this?
You seem to be assuming that it is only by kneeling that someone can show they do hold an anti-discrimination views. I disagree.
“not kneeling” does not equal “does not support”. I don’t wear a poppy in November, that does not mean I do not support the concept of Armed Forces remembrance.
If you have evidence of opinions, beyond the mere kneeling, that shows someone does not support the concept of equality and anti-discrimination then certainly that should count against them (in my opinion) but I was very careful in my post to talk about the lack of kneeling by itself. I think it is wrong to draw hard conclusions about someone’s character purely from that gesture alone.
There is absolutely no doubt that Kap was pouting on the bench or at the least, just apathetic as to what was going on around him. There is no way in hell that little shit was thinking about the police when he was sitting the first couple of times. In fact, even as his ‘fame’ grew, he was probably counting the dollar signs and future grifting opportunities while he was kneeling.
If I may junior-mod a bit, I would prefer this thread not turn into a Kaepernick discussion, of which we’ve had a lot in other threads. The thread is not about Kaep.
In this thread, I am just asking specifically about whether the tide is turning to the point where, eventually, standing during the anthem may someday be perceived as more offensive than kneeling during it, especially if all your coaches and teammates are kneeling.
Amen.
It’s a sporting event FFS, not a call to war. On any given normal day, there are number of professional sporting events, all playing the national anthem with players and spectators standing around impatiently waiting for the farce to conclude while some amateur tortures the melody. Time would be better spent in a minute of silenent reflection, in appreciation for being able to enjoy the occasion and in remembrance of those who cannot.
In team sports in the USA, the coach can set a good example that standing is perfectly acceptable by standing himself.
When did kneeling become a sign of disrespect? As near as I can tell, although people complain about it in this one very specific context, it’s otherwise considered a sign of extreme respect, not disrespect. Have people stopped kneeling in church?
we get your opinion on what Kaepernick was thinking. thanks for sharing ad nauseum.
There ain’t nothing in American sports history that has taking a knee as a sign of disrespect. You disagree with that ascertation? I’m not being snarky here but at least my exprience in the US says taking a knee is respectful. My experience in martial arts is that kneeing is respectful.
And in the interest of fighting ignorance, at 6’4" IMHO he isn’t a little shit.