Flag/pledge/anthem whiners

It’s amazing to me the level of butthurt that happens whenever someone doesn’t stand during the national anthem, doesn’t feel the need to put their hand over their heart during the pledge, or uses the flag as a form of protest.

Usually someone making a statement has a real beef, such as religious freedom being trampled on, freedom to not be religious being trampled on, or maybe someone is protesting that state officials are killing civilians of color disproportionately to the crime (or lack thereof) in question. Let’s say you’re protesting the fact that it says in the constitutions of several states that you have to be a monotheist to hold office. It’s not enforceable, but it’s still a fucking insult. That’s on the small end of things. Or let’s say you’re protesting racially biased drug enforcement policies, or police brutality. That’s on the more severe end of things.

In all of those cases, the problem is a bigger deal than the flag/pledge/anthem.

Here’s something you may not be aware of about the flag: It’s not a person. It has no feelings. It’s a symbol. You can wave it, sneeze on it, set it on fire, or simply not give a shit if someone else waves it, and the flag will have the same reaction- no reaction. The flag doesn’t care.

The pledge, FYI, is meaningless. It’s words spoken by the same people who then turn around and sell state secrets to the Chinese. It doesn’t stop someone from being a traitor. It’s not an oath that binds anyone from doing anything. It’s also pretty much only spoken by children in compulsory fashion, and they don’t even know what all the words mean.

The national anthem is a song about our country that we liked enough to call it our state song. It has all the meaning of our national sport. There’s a good portion of us who really couldn’t give a flying fuck about baseball. I’m glad you enjoy it. I don’t have to go, and I don’t. The national anthem has the same level of who gives a shit. You can sing it or not sing it, it doesn’t mean you hate the country if you don’t. You’ve only heard it a couple hundred times in your life. As the comedian said, it’s on no one’s iPod playlist. It’s not a recreational tune. And you don’t have to sing it. That’s what makes the United States of America different from North Korea. You’re not compelled to be a cog in the state machine. You can be an individual with, heh heh, freedom to choose not to sing. That’s ***far more important ***than the fucking song.

But whenever this holy trinity is impugned in any way, assholes wrap themselves in the flag, and chickenhawks pretend to love the military, and start speaking on behalf of everyone in the military without their permission, and say: You’d better fuckin’ stand up for the pledge and put your hand across your heart and sing the national anthem and wear the flag pin because if you don’t, you hate this country and you’re disrespecting the blood and sacrifice of our soldiers who died for your freedom.

In other news, Army serviceperson fighting Taliban soldiers in Afghanistan is not the slightest bit hurt by someone not standing during the national anthem during a football game in the USA, and, not trying to speak on his or her behalf, but I can use my imagination here, probably doesn’t give a shit, because s/he’s more worried about not being blown up by a pipe bomb and wants to come home to his family and friends. You know what hurts that soldier more than sitting during the national anthem? Coming home after serving their fucking country and then being shot by a racist cop after declaring he’s got a legally permitted and properly licensed firearm and cooperated with the cop who pulled him over for being black.

Might be about a billion times more important than fucking symbolism.

If all you care about is worship of symbols, and don’t actually give a shit about the country or the people in it, then don’t pretend to be a noble patriot and pretend to be all offended when someone else exercises their freedom to speak out against horrific bullshit.

The person that actually loves their country is the one that gives a shit about it enough to make it better. It’s the difference between a parent that neglects their kids and the one that imposes some rules and guidelines. Only one of those two actually gives a shit. If all you do is whine when someone doesn’t give a blowjob to everyone singing the national anthem and doesn’t join in the singing, and doesn’t stand, and that’s your big political issue that bugs you, you’ve got it too good. You obviously don’t understand how someone else has something more substantial to complain about than nationalistic symbolism.

Other countries are nations too, and some of them are total shit. Being a nation isn’t automatically something to worship. How about being a nation that does right by its citizens first, then you can have its symbols respected, voluntarily, by the people in it.

But the moment you make it compulsory to worship the nation-symbols and ostracize anyone who doesn’t bow down before the symbols, that’s the moment you care more about symbols than freedom, liberty, justice, or the idea of a more perfect union.

Those words mean absolutely fucking nothing when all you care about are the words, and none of the actions.

You underestimate the importance of symbolism. Yeah, it’s just a pice of cloth, you say. But people salute it with pride. People fight for it to remain flying. Coffins get draped with it. Yeah, you don’t understand the power and importance of symbolism.

I totally agree with** Askthepizzaguy**. When the cops forced that football dude to stand for the national anthem and then… what?
What?
Oh, they didn’t make him stand?
Never mind.

** Askthepizzaguy** is just stating his bullshit opinion. He has the right to do that. Football guy had the right to do what he did too. And EVERYBODY has the right to state a bullshit opinion opinion about it.
In fact, since football dude used his job in the national spotlight to express his opinion everybody, including his ticket paying fans, NFL program sponsors, employers etc get to vote on his opinion with their dollars…or lack of them.

It’s not so much that Colin Kaepernick is getting flack for not standing up for the flag. It’s just not so appropriate to bring a political issue into a sports environment. People watch to escape the politics. The National Anthem is just a few minutes of pretending that beyond the rivalries, all who participate stand united for a bigger cause. Kaepernick is already at risk of getting cut from the roster, and this grandstanding (grandsitting in this case) doesn’t exactly promote his virtues. He should have expressed his dismay independently of the NFL. Now he’ll be lucky to play backup QB for the summer leagues. Baaaad move on his part.

I love the fact that we live in a country where we are free to disrespect the symbols of that freedom. Kaepernick’s choice of protest has failed to generate the conversation he intended. In that regard he failed, but just as he is free take the stance he did, it comes with the price that people will disagree with him. It also comes with the price that his employer, the League, may not like the distraction that he has caused and decide to no longer employ him. Hopefully he considered that when he made his decision.

If the QB had said: “I can’t stand America, I don’t like anything about it, I’m not standing up when you play that song.” I might have invited him to look for another place to live.
Instead, he said “Cops in this country are killing Black people, and facing no consequences. I will stage this protest to shine a light on this issue.”
So at least the guy has a good reason. It does not bother me in the least. The knee jerk reaction by hyper/pretend patriots is what is odd about this.

Somehow, I’d thought, or at least hoped, we’d gotten past the Vietnam era “America! Love it or leave it!” mentality.

Obviously not. Kaepernick exercised his right to free speech. I applaud his personal decision, no matter the reason.

[QUOTE=omar little]
It also comes with the price that his employer, the League, may not like the distraction that he has caused and decide to no longer employ him. Hopefully he considered that when he made his decision.
[/quote]

He did:

Colin Kaepernick explains why he sat during national anthem

Taking him at his word, that is the behavior of a “true American,” to stand up (or not, in this case) for what you believe in, regardless of the consequences.

when are you progressives gonna accept that every country and societies minorities face discrimination? Its a lot worse in many countries outside America.

That aside, fact is America gave ingrate Kaepernick a chance to be a sports star. How about them black footballers in Europe? The same Europe which colonized a continent, the same Europe where a non-white can’t go on the field without tons of racist chants being yelled? The same Europe where there are NGOs dedicated to fighting racism in sport, whereas in America, white America accepts that blacks dominate football and basketball, two of America’s most popular sports, do pretty damn well in baseball, also one of America’s popular sports, and made much bigger strides in traditionally “white sports” like gymnastics and swimming?

Kaepernick just wants attention and knows he can get the SJWs up in arms to defend his unpatriotic ways and ingratitude.

Yeah, that’s all I hear from the racists these days. How dare those non-white people be ungrateful at all you’ve done for them. :rolleyes:

Yeah! Be happy just a few of you get shot. You still have some rights, maybe.

Just shut the fuck up, asshole. (Addressed to DM00, not Colin. Him I admire.)

One of my beefs, but not the only one regarding him…

The dude is AT WORK (and getting paid damn well for it).

He can do this shit on his own time. Start his own youtube channel…blah blah blah…

Before any of this he would be playing back up at best. Except for his inflated contract based on one good year he is largely irrelevant in football. Maybe the publicity will help him. His play isn’t.

I thought America was supposed to be exceptional.

One can agree wholeheartedly that Kaep has every right in the world to express his opinion, and not have to “applaud his personal decision”. I don’t go around applauding the KKK or Trump supporters yelling at Black Lives Matter protestors, even while I agree they have the right to do what they do.

Again, recognizing someone has a right does not mean I, or you, have to support them using that right in any way they wish. And exercising a right, simply because you have it, doesn’t make you a “True American”.

And some of the consequences to exercising your right is to accept criticism for the exercise of that right.

This is why I support the Guantanamoing of anyone who says the flag/pledge/anthem. Those evil traitors need a good waterboarding and nudie pic taken of them.

Good on you for completely missing the well-articulated point in the OP. And you even managed to do that in the very first reply in the thread.

(post shortened)

Colin Kaepernick (who?) made a personal decision to stand up by sitting down. However, he decided to drag the NFL and his fellow professional athletes in to his personal protest. Hey! Look at me! Talk about me amongst yourselves! I’m much more recognizable - NOW!

I guess that makes Kaepernick a flag/pledge/anthem whiner.

Just as asshole Kaepernick has a right to protest the actions of others, others have the right to protest the actions of Kaepernick. Fuck him and the horse (figuratively-speaking) he rode to a highly paid position in professional sports. I choose not to watch him play. I choose not to watch his team play. I choose not to buy any product from a company who chooses to hire him to endorse their products.

Everyone has a right to non-violent protest, right?

Where else can you get paid $12 million for not just sitting through the National Anthem, but the rest of the season? :smiley:

Wow.

You’re not even PRETENDING to be a liberal any more, are you?

Well, I guess that’s something, anyway.

I assume you also oppose all of the flag-waving displays of support for the military at football games, then?