Why does the right equate what they see as disrespect for the flag as disrespect for the troops, while the left does not?
Because they need a reason to dismiss legitimate criticisms of our country by people who are suffering under the current environment.
Because the military is constantly waving the thing around.
They are incredibly narrow-focused and unable to see a larger picture.
Regarding their blindness to the larger picture… if it hasn’t been told to them by Faux News or their trailer-park buddies, they can’t understand it and therefore associate negative value to it.
I think they grumbled a bit about the demonstration, but it didn’t hit the fan until Trump decided on the spur of the moment that this was instead a direct condemnation of the flag, the national anthem, himself, and everything else he decided to hold dear. Never mind that he simply went ahead and deflected attention away from the original purpose (protesting unequal treatment by the police) and created this whole new scenario.
The left does sometimes see flag desecration as anti-military, and even say so -
This is in reference to an incident of flag desecration on Veteran’s Day. Not all such incidents are specifically anti-military, of course.
Another part is that the flag is not only a symbol of our freedoms in the US, but also a symbol of those who fought and sacrificed to defend those freedoms. If I sacrifice a lot for something, and you disrespect that something, it is easy to conclude that you are disrespecting me as well as the something.
This is not to imply that this disrespect is or should be illegal. Nor that every anti-flag protest is disrespecting the troops. But the flag is a general symbol, and it is not easy to make it clear that disrespecting the flag is only disrespecting one thing that it symbolizes. That’s a bug of protesting against symbols. People are going to assume you are protesting everything that symbol represents, or at least everything they think it represents.
Maybe you are only disrespecting the flag because Black Lives Matter. Maybe you are only putting that crucifix in urine because you like the colors. Maybe you only put up the Che Guevara T-shirt because you support the struggle of indigenous peoples in the Third World. Maybe you are only displaying the swastika because it is a sun symbol. Good luck keeping the distinctions clear.
Regards,
Shodan
You know what’s incredibly disrespectful to the flag of the United States? The rebel flag. What could be more offensive? To every soldier, or their family, really any American!
But the Right have no problem with calling that offensive thing ‘heritage’. How spectacularly hypocritical is that? And that’s one reason why no one cares how bent the Right gets about disrespecting the flag or the military.
You really want to measure people’s patriotism but such a silly standard? Read the damn flag code, it clearly specifies numerous ways the flag should NOT be disrespected, which are routinely done without comment. Including, using it to embellish commercial products, clothing, sports uniforms, nascars, passing it overhead in a crowd, etc, etc.
But no flag lovers gave a hoot until it was something being done to support BLM, or protest police brutality. Then, suddenly it’s all about how the flag is being treated! So transparent it’s embarrassing I should think.
There seems to be this notion that soldiers* are the only people, or even the primary people, who have fought and sacrificed for our freedoms. Did not the civil rights marchers of the 1960s fight and sacrifice for our freedoms? Did not the men and women in the early part of the last century who fought to unionize even though law enforcement beat them up and jailed them for doing so - did they not fight and sacrifice for our freedoms?
Are not the people today who are protesting against the way law enforcement officers still feel entitled to kill unarmed black people in situations where a white person would not feel the least bit of danger, are not they fighting for our freedoms?
I say they are. The flag represents their actions, just as much as it represents those of the U.S. military. They are calling attention to a very nontrivial way in which our nation still falls short of the ideals represented by that flag, and their protest symbolizes that fact. They are honoring the ideals represented by that flag by insisting that America live up to those ideals. To use it as a totem to discredit them is an abomination.
*using this term broadly to stand for all U.S. military
But as it pertains to the current issue of kneeling during the anthem it’s a viewpoint only the right takes. I read over and over from people on the right saying essentially that not standing during the anthem = hatred of the troops. But those who are kneeling say it absolutely does not mean that. And I want to know why this disagreement exists.
That was answered in post #2 by manson1972.
Or, to put it more technically, they do it because it’s an example of argumentum ad passionem, specifically, by attempting to induce the emotion that goes with supporting our military and getting it attached to the viewpoint that kneeling during the Anthem is wrong.
Interesting point: in the current kerfluffle over the Anthem, there’s the further disconnect of equating kneeling during the Anthem with disrespect for the flag itself. Of course, the Anthem is a song about seeing the flag still waving, symbolizing that the country had survived the attack of foreign forces, but still. :dubious:
It’s always been a mistake (and will continue to be a mistake) for people on the Left to reject the flag, national anthem etc. as symbols of Oppression instead of what they really should be viewed as (symbols of what’s good about America). It’s not a universal error by any means, but it’s way too common.
Allow the right wing to co-opt such things and you forfeit a great deal of public support.
It’s a losing strategy, but many never learn.
Looking forward to the next Dope thread about how annoying it is to see demonstrations of support for the armed forces. 
Oh, i see. The flag’s only a symbol for the good of America. That explains it. :rolleyes:
The point of the original protest was that people feel that they are being denied the things that are good things represented by those symbols.
Because both are viewing the symbol from different perspectives (and of course we are using broad brushes here). The left, in my experience, has a more European left mindset when it comes to flags. Europeans in general, due to their history, have bad associations with flags as symbols and anything that smacks to them of nationalism, and the US left looks at in in those terms. US liberals, I think, are more divided on this, as I know liberals who have no issues with the national anthem or the flag, and some who do.
The US right, however, sees the flag differently, as a symbol of all that is good and right in the world. They also don’t realize how our common mythology about the flag through history has weaved this narrative into our collective psyche.
Flags are powerful symbols and always have been. It’s pretty unsurprising that polar opposite wings view both the flag and it’s symbolic meaning so differently.
I do see the flag as a symbol of what’s good. Inherent in that good is the freedom to not stand for a national anthem, not put my hand over my heart, not to wear a flag pin and other actions which I find silly, but other people are perfectly free to do if they want.
Of course they did. But the right has the same difficulty of convincing the left “we don’t mean the civil rights marchers” as the left does of convincing the right “we don’t mean the troops”.
Well, that’s the disconnect, to the extent there is one.
The right says that the flag stands for freedom and democracy and the troops and motherhood and apple pie. The left says it stands for freedom and democracy and the troops and motherhood and apple pie and black people getting shot by the police. And they are only protesting the black people getting shot by police part.
To which the right thinks “what have you got against apple pie?”
Regards,
Shodan
Thanks. That’s the kind of answer I was looking for, how fundamental beliefs color feelings about symbolism.
The flag does not belong just to the soldiers as you say, it belongs to everyone who has worked, suffered, and sacrificed to make this country great.
That is why the protests are so offensive. By protesting the anthem and the flag, you protest all of it. If people wanted to protest the police, there are police stations in every city in this country. The players could take their day off and go march in front of the police stations. Yet by choosing the to protest the anthem and the flag, they are protesting the entire country for which it stands.
If one of the NFL players wore a headband that said MLK sucks, people would probably get upset about that, even if he claimed he only meant that MLK was a bad husband because of his infidelity and he loved MLK’s civil rights work.
They’re not protesting the anthem and the flag. They’re protesting that our system of justice seems to give free rein for cops to shoot and kill unarmed black people for little if any reason. They are protesting by means of a quiet and discreet action - kneeling - during the national anthem.
People offended by that are people looking for an excuse to be offended. It’s bad enough to be a snowflake, but they’re beating the bushes for things to be a snowflake about.
Furthermore, they are fundamentally appealing TO the ideals represented by the flag, by insisting that America live up to the ideals that it theoretically stands for. They are invoking those ideals, not protesting against them. That demonstrates belief in those ideals and their validity.
Why should they do that? The point of protest is to make people aware of your grievances. If you’re a football player, and you’re on camera with millions of people watching, that’s your best opportunity. Why should they protest in a less visible way?