It's a Pretty Lame Protest if No One Gets Upset

The BBQ Pit
1

This is largely in response to the latest brou-ha-ha over professional sports players not standing during the US nation anthem.

Look, I get that some people are not happy about that - that’s the point. As the title says, it’s a pretty lame protest if no one gets upset about it. But really, kneeling in silence instead of standing in silence is a pretty low-key form of “disrespect”.

Demanding and compelling displays of loyalty to a flag, anthem, or country is an oxymoron - if the flag/anthem/nation is worthy of respect why the need for coercion?

Freedom of expression is an empty concept if you’re only allowed “approved” forms of protest or officially sanctioned acts. If you’re only free to disagree with prior permission you aren’t free at all.

OK, that’s the meta out of the way, now for the details:

President Trump’s latest outrage is, apparently, over professional athletes daring to kneel down during the national anthem instead of standing. He wants them suspended or fired for this. As if getting involved with the pre-game ceremony details is even something a President of the United States should be spending time and energy on - um, aren’t there more important things he should be doing on the taxpayer’s dime? Trump has also called for a boycott of the NFL.

Huh. The PotUS taking on one of the Great American Pastimes.

Interesting, because his base is a major support of things like professional sports.

Today, at the Ravens/Jaguars game in London there were a whole lot of kneeling NFL players during the US anthem

The Steelers say they won’t even be on the field during the anthem in their game today.

And at least one Major League Baseball player knelt instead of stood.

Several owners are backing the protests now, including the Raven’s owner who took to the field with his team in solidarity.

My personal feeling is that kneeling in silence is actually pretty respectful form of protest, and for anyone to get apoplexy over it says more about person demanding standing, suspending, and firing than the people kneeling. You can love your flag, your anthem, and your nation while also criticizing its failings or calling attention to things that should be changed in that nation. Demanding lockstep conformation is to promote form over substance, and is something I’d expect more in North Korea or the old USSR than from the United States.

Since this is IMHO feel free to share your thoughts.

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Meh…protest on your own time…

Personally I HATE professional sports and I hope this is the shit that crumbles that crappy empire of greedy capitalists and worthless people that do almost nothing to further society in any measurable way.

And that dick coach who got like 7 year old to kneel? I need the pit to talk about him.

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I agree 100% with the OP.

I would urge people to remember the words President Trump has used to describe these protesting athletes and the words he used to describe the white supremacists who marched in Charlottesville.

I would ask people to consider how, exactly, protesting government actions is an activity that can be described as “disrespectful to our traditions” as Americans and what kind of person would think it is. (For those that don’t remember (not Dopers, but perhaps some internet passerby who wandered in): our country was founded as a protest against the previous government’s actions.)

The great thing is that Trump picked a fight he cannot win. :smiley:

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Is your goal to just upset people? I guess that’s the question. To some extent a protest is always going to be preaching to the choir and upsetting those that disagree. In this case I think any message is lost and is basically not even being discussed over the issue of disrespect to the flag and the country. If you don’t actually care about a message getting out then knock yourself out.

5

The better thing is Trump won that contest thingy about a year ago.

6

Bingo.

The flag/national athem represents MANY things.

Upset about something Walmart does? Get thee to the Walmart parking lot and have at it.

Police brutality? Get thee in front of the local police station or city hall or get on your local news channel and vent.

Protesting the national anthe/flag?

That is the intellectual equivalent of burning down the town because you are upset about X.

And IMO stupid stuff like this is why Trump won in the first place and why we are probably seeing major political shift in the country.

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I had a passing thought a few minutes ago that it was impossible to overestimate the sheer lack of interest I have in whether professional athletes stand, sit or kneel for the national anthem.

It might be slightly more interesting if they did end zone-style dances during playing of the Star-Spangled Banner.

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If a political comercial groups, hoola hoop companies want ads/signs and banners held up by the players, don’t they have to pay?

But players, not the owners or admin but players get to have adverts of personal opinions up for free?

Well OK.

If:

Enough people disagree and vote with their billfold and the team / league / whatever folds ( see what I did there? ) does that not just mean that their protest did not carry enough weight / information / support to prevent their livelihood from folding up? ( I did it again. W00t !! )

No government bailout? … right? Does not qualify. Or do you think it does and tax payer money should be used to keep them solvent?

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It’s afternoon in Arkansas now, right? So there’s that…

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I think the number of people who will see this as disrespectful to the flag and to the country for no other reason than to be disrespectful is small. I think the number of people who understand the reason for the actions, as described by the people taking them, will be very, very large. And I predict that when people start doing it specifically to protest Trump, the issue of disrespect to the flag and the country will disappear (except for hardcore Trump supporters futilely trying to beat that drum as loudly as they can).

As such, I think the sentence I bolded is, at the least, largely unfounded.

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Except that it’s absolutely nothing like that. Burning down a town is an act of destruction. What is destroyed when somebody doesn’t salute the flag?

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Bo…

A LARGE fraction of the country supports Trump (or least doesn’t see him as evil incarnate). I’m not going to debate the actual number/percentage because that is irrelevant.

And more to the point. Even people who don’t like Trump/police/whoever…welll there are a percentage of them that don’t want fucking politics injected into every god damn thing. Sports and many other forms of “entertainment” are where they go to ESCAPE this shit.

An aside. My mother watched that “telethon” where people like George Clooney personally answered the phone and you got to send your money to help hurricane victims. Early on she donated amount XYZ. After watching it she said “fuck it, I am not donating XYZ, because these bastards even had to bring politics into this”…so she cancel that donation and made the donation directly to some other organization.

Many people are getting tired of politics. Even more people on both sides are getting tired of politics getting injected into every fucking thing.

PS. Let’s go down to the quarry and throw some shit down there (personally I think it as funny as shit and even funnier that it pisses other people off :slight_smile: )

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You don’t understand the concept of “intellectual equivalence” apparently.

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That’s not true. He’s been whining about two of the Great American Pastimes this week; basketball and football.

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I think it’s pretty clear I do.

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Well, when you find an example of somebody ACTUALLY intellectually burning something let us know.

Then get them on Penn and Teller’s Fool Us.

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It’s nice to not have to worry about politics. Especially because it doesn’t affect your life.

Kaepernick wasn’t protesting anything political. Unless police brutality against blacks is somehow a political choice? Like, are politics and politicians causing these rogue police officers to profile and kill black people?

Or is it an America problem? I think it’s an America problem. And I think the players pointing out the absolute ridiculousness of brushing of the deaths of black men on Saturday while cheering for black men to entertain you on Sunday is a poignant show of solidarity and gives a voice in the only venue where black men aren’t automatically vilified.

Sideline protesters never said anything about the president or veterans. Other people brought up veterans (and veterans have routinely been saying “we are with the players.”) The President is the one who brought up the president.

The NBA players did make their thing political but they are in the off-season. They are not protesting during games (yet!)

The original message has been buried but I hope now that the movement has gained a lot more steam (thanks to nobody but the president) there will be more talk about the original intent - how can we stop bad police from targeting and killing black people? In America.

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I understand what you’re saying, and frankly, I’m tired of having to explain to those people that politics is already in everything and that only fools don’t pay attention to it, IMO. Politics isn’t injected into things, it’s already there FFS. Not knowing that, or trying to plausibly deny it, is all kinds of stupid and ignorant. Did that football stadium build itself, for instance? The roads around it just magically appeared?

:confused:

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So, Bo…you’d be totally happy if I showed up at your birthday party and started making pro Trump statements and giving the finger to those who disagreed?

Hey, politics is already in everything right?

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I’m sorry; I seem to have misread your intent. Did you want to exchange ideas and information or did you want to pick a fight?