More on abortion views over time, this time from Pew (summarized here).
Of note: “In 1995, 59% of Americans supported legalized abortion in all or most cases and only 40% did not. In 2001, citizens were equally divided on abortion, with 49% supporting it and 48% opposed. By 2012, support had shifted back in favor of legalized abortion, with 53% supporting it in all or most cases and 39% against.”
So more people now as compared to 2001 think abortion should be legal in all or most cases.
**OMG[/], I think our definitions of “precipitously” differ somewhat. An average drop of 4% over a fifteen-year timespan does not constitute a “precipitous” drop in approval. IMHO, it appears more in the realm of statistical fluctuation. YMMV, of course.
I’m not sure which is more startling. Your inability to not read or understand a chart, or how you can come to a completely opposite conclusion to what is written.
The first chart shows age cohorts over five year intervals. In 1975, 18 - 29 years olds were the most likely to say abortion should always be legal. Today, 18 - 29 year olds are the second least likeliest to hold that position. While other age groups have seen an uptick in the ‘always legal’ category, 18 - 29 year olds have seen a downtick in the same have category. The second chart also shows age cohorts over five year intervals. In 1975, 18 - 29 year olds were the second least likeliest group to to say abortion should always be illegal. Today they are the likeliest, a five point uptick and a greater increase than any other group over the same time span. I’ve no idea what you’re reading, but it’s wrong nevertheless.
Ummm… Lol. You did no such thing. You couldn’t even read two simple charts. In fact, I have given you a few links to read regarding age and abortion approval, yet you ignored them. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume you missed them the first time. Therefore, I will go over them again shortly.
You think anywhere between four and thirteen point changes tiny? Indeed, the differences aren’t tiny. Since the early to mid 1990s, there has been a remarkable reversal in abortion attitudes. But I’ll get to that shortly.
The GSS has been tracking abortion attitudes since 1972. Since the mid 1990s, there has been a steady decrease in overall abortion support, with 18 - 29 year olds far less supportive than the 30 - 64 age group, and close to the 65+ age group overall. Ignore the inflection points if you want.
Click on moral issues. Not only are you able to view abortion support for a particular reason over time, you’re also able to view abortion support by age, race, gender, region, etc. If you were to click on the link, you’d notice a few trends.
1.) Men are a tad more likely to support abortion than women.
2.) Those aged 18 - 29 are generally the most likely to say abortion should be illegal in any given case, being edged out occasionally by the 75+ age group.
3.) Support for abortion in cases where a woman can’t afford a baby, doesn’t want a baby or simply wants to abort for any reason runs at about a percentage of high 30s to low 40s.
4.) The late 1980s/early 1990s generally marks the high point for abortion support. Since that time, abortion approval has waned and abortion attitudes have returned to early 1970s levels.
I’ll be curious to read your response.
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2.) Cite
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That should suffice. There should be no excuse now for repeating the same incorrect information.
You’re a great one for making me laugh. It’s very simple- I’m talking about what this chart(the first one) says about right now (or 2009, which is the latest part of that chart). It says “Since 2000, however, all age groups with the exception of seniors have shown similar levels of support for broadly legal abortion.” Seniors have the lowest approval of legalized abortion under any circumstances (16% in 2005-2009, compared to 24-28% for all other age groups). What I said is true. In 2009, all of the younger age groups approved of legalized abortion at a significantly higher level than the oldest age group- 8-12% difference. This is very clear for this chart.
No, you 
I seriously don’t get how you’re missing it. It’s very simple- the first chart shows the approval of abortion among different age groups- and in each different time period the poll is taken, each age group will be a different group of people. And for each poll, the oldest Americans were always the least approving of abortion (notice the light green line is always the lowest!). What are you not getting?
Funny how this Pew Poll shows that “In 1995, 59% of Americans supported legalized abortion in all or most cases and only 40% did not. In 2001, citizens were equally divided on abortion, with 49% supporting it and 48% opposed. By 2012, support had shifted back in favor of legalized abortion, with 53% supporting it in all or most cases and 39% against.” Since 2001, support for legalized abortion has gone up, with support for banning abortion going down by 9%. Support for legal abortion is down a little since 1995, but so is (oddly enough) support for banning it.
Interesting data. It’s very interesting how different the poll results can be when the question is asked in a slightly different way. From the various links we’ve posted, it seems that majorities disapprove of abortion for the “can’t afford/don’t want” reason, but at the same time significant majorities don’t want to overturn Roe vs Wade, and significant majorities (like >60%) don’t want to outlaw first trimester abortions. Many people don’t seem to have be very clear on even their own opinions.
No, you None of what I’ve posted has been incorrect. The data that we’ve both posted shows that right now (or as of the latest polling) old people disapprove of abortion more than young people (the light green line is lower than the darker green lines!). It shows that approval of legal abortion is at a higher level now as compared to 2001, and disapproval is quite a bit lower (from the Pew poll). It shows that more than 60% of Americans don’t want to ban first trimester abortions. It shows that from 1984 to 2005, support for a Constitutional amendment to ban abortion has gone down steadily from 50% to 37%.
I’m not saying it’s 100% clear that abortion views are moving in my direction. But it’s certainly not clear it’s moving in yours- that’s obvious when just looking at the Constitutional amendment question. Taking it all in, I think it’s clear that Americans in general disapprove, morally, of abortion, but don’t want to outlaw it, especially in the first trimester.
I’ll be curious to read your response 
On Rachel Maddow last night, Rachel makes the case that Republicans inside the Beltway are talking the talk about Republicans and immigration reform and, relevant to this thread, are also wanting to, well, stop beating the drum on abortion. She then points out that “all over the country if you look at what Republicans are planning to do in states where they have governing authority” is disconnected.
[The abortion part of the clip starts at 3:31.]
It shows Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-TX), a Romney advisor and John McCain talking about how they should, well, stop beating the drum on abortion.
But Maddow points out that one of the first thing Ohio Republicans did after the election was to vote to defund Planned Parenthood. How in Wisconsin they are lining up to sponsor four new antiabortion bills - including their own mandatory ultrasound bill - into the legislature. And it’s the same thing in Arkansas. And in Michigan they are trying again to put in regulations that experts say would likely shut down most of Michigan’s abortion clinics.
She points this out to highlight the disconnect between what reps at the federal level are saying and what Republicans in charge are actually doing.
I point this out to show OMG that he’s full of shit with his irony comments.
I really have little desire to keep this up, but I’ll bite.
Romney did better in Ohio this year than McCain did while Obama did worse. In fact, Romney did better nationwide as a whole versus McCain while Obama did worse versus 2008. IN FACT, Romney’s “woes with women” was entirely among minorities, which is a separate issue. Among White women, Romney beat Obama comfortably. But if you want to argue that Romney’s shortcomings with minority females in the election were because of abortion, I’m all ears.
What does that have to do with your assertion that it is Democrats who are “beating the abortion drum” and not Republicans?
I don’t really have a dog in this fight, but it is one of those issues I wish would just go away. Like with the mentioned gun control stuff of the 90s, abortion isn’t going to go anywhere, so discussion about it is either pro-life wishful thinking, or pro-choice fear mongering. No matter which side of the issue you’re on, I’d really just like to see us stop harping on stuff that probably won’t change without a constitutional amendment and focus on issues that actually might change.
And, really, from what I can tell, it didn’t seem like it was even much of an issue in the presidential election. I know Romney was asked the question and he gave a pretty non-commital answer that was later taken out of context and used against him, but I don’t personally know anyone who was mentioning abortion as either an issue why they were voting for or against either candidate, and I know a number of people that have very strong feelings on both sides of that issue.
That said, here in Virginia, I did see it coming up a lot in our Senate race, but from what I saw, it looked like it was mostly Tim Kaine attacking George Allen for being against women’s rights. I don’t recall seeing anything from George Allen mentioning abortion at all. But the whole thing is kind of bizarre to me since Kaine is a devout Catholic. I’m not sure of the demographic breakdown of that race though, so I’m not sure how much one might say that issue mattered here, but even with that, it seemed like taxes, spending, and education were significantly more important issues in their campaigns.
Politically, the Planned Parenthood cudgel is a powerful one- and the Republicans keep feeding ammunition to the Democrats. And I don’t just mean the ridiculous Akin comments- I mean the efforts in Texas to defund it, as well as Romney’s “we’re going to end Planned Parenthood” comment. Hell, I’m a man, but when I was a poor college student, Planned Parenthood was a health care resource that I utilized- and I don’t think I’m even that unusual. I found them to be extremely competent and compassionate, and they were quite inexpensive. Planned Parenthood does good and real work for (largely non-rich) women (and men), and it seems many Republicans still haven’t realized that attacking such an organization is just going to blow up in their face.
Maybe you should read threads before spouting off on them. If you did, you would know that this particular line of “both sides are bad” was debunked. The fact is that Republicans like to curtail choice when they get into positions of power, and that they are still doing it as we speak.
Choice advocates are not paranoid. They are not the liberal versions of gun nuts screaming that Obama is gonna take their guns. Republicans have passed legislation at the highest levels since Roe Vs. Wade since they took over many states in 2010. And even now, after the 2012 election debacle, they’re still doing it.
When Republicans get into office and pass as many anti-abortion measures as Obama has passed anti-gun legislation, then you would be right to tell the choice contingency that they have nothing to worry about.
But that hasn’t happened and it shows no signs of happening, your false attempts at equivalencies notwithstanding.
You guys sure have some convenient arguments when it suits you.
Republicans did not beat the abortion drum this year; Democrats did. Trying to argue that Democrats were beating that drum this year in response to 2010 doesn’t work unless you want to acknowledge that 2010 was a Republican pushback against 2008. But you won’t.
Furthermore, there is scant evidence to suggest that Romney lost over the issue of abortion, unless you’re going to suggest Black and Hispanic women voted based on the issue of abortion. But both you and I know that they didn’t, as if they would have Romney would have picked up more votes on both of these demographics than he did. This thread is mostly pointless posturing. But have at it.
Republicans campaigned on the economy in 2010, did they not? The Tea Party was supposed to be about fiscal responsibility and not social conservatism, was it not? Yet when they got into office, it was all about abortion - in record levels. As has been repeatedly pointed out to you.
I will merely repeat my own post from before in response to your silly assertion:
Pointing out that someone who is beating a drum is doing it way too loudly and it is keeping up the whole neighborhood is not the same as beating the drum. This isn’t difficult.
You’re framing the issue with respect to abortion as if it’s about persuading people. It’s not- it’s about scaring people who already agree with you. And Republicans gave the Democrats plenty of ammo to scare pro-choice (or just pro-Planned Parenthood and/or pro-birth control) voters- it increased turnout among Democratic-leaning voters (especially women)- it wasn’t about changing people’s minds. That’s why Akin lost, and that’s why Mourdock lost. I don’t think it had a huge effect in the national election- but I suspect a few hundred thousand women nationally, perhaps, voted (when they otherwise might have stayed home) because they were scared Republicans wanted to defund Planned Parenthood or make birth control harder to get.
But it doesn’t work the other way (unfortunately for Republicans), because the Democratic position is already the law of the land- so Democratic candidates can use the “fear of losing rights” argument as a cudgel. This election, the Republicans just kept fumbling the ball.
Did you read this source I posted?
Republicans are relying on weak tactics in this battle, They fall back on the Bible but that won’t work with non-religious people.
They babble about God’s will. I can’t believe in any God that wants a woman to go through a pregnancy after being raped, wants her to suffer that much for a potential person. The argument that this could be the baby that grows up to cure cancer is ludicrous. The mother was raped, had to go through the strain and stress of carrying it, the expense of doctor visits and delivery, of putting her life on HOLD for a mere possibility. It is also likely that you may get a Ted Bundy or a Charles Manson from the pregnancy.
You claim religious liberty but you don’t seem to give a damn about the lack of other people’s religions.
You go after healthcare like women have no idea what they want or need from life. You attack Planned Parenthood like rabid hyenas on meth.
You do not get healthy babies from sick or hungry mothers, from mothers traumatized by sexual assault and you do not get healthy babies from mothers who do not want babies. You do not get healthy babies from people who have no place to go for prenatal care. If these women and their babies need C-sections and extended hospitalization, who picks up the tab for that?
It is appalling to hear what’s been said about rape, birth control, and abortion this past election season. It is disgusting to see what some people really think. I don’t know how it is more people don’t see it.
Here’s another instance where those friggin’ Democrats just won’t shut up about abortion.
Idealogues see only their ideology; they do not see the effects of it on individuals.
And they want to have things both ways. They don’t want abortion and they don’t want to pay for anyone’s birth control, but they also have nothing but contempt for those who are poor, low-income, on assistance, unemployed, etc. Apparently, the idealogues’ solution to unwanted pregnancy is total abstinence–and, oh yeah, don’t get raped either.
Recommended reading:
LOL! After Gallup’s performance this election cycle, I’d be less embarrassed to post a cite taken directly from the Weekly World News.
Shifts mostly within a five-point MoE are not statistically significant, much less “precipitous”.
Hey, I hear that the there were invitations to President Romney’s inauguration all printed out and ready to mail to Gallup’s senior staff.