Me too, since it came from duffer, one of our most reliably “Libruls suck!” Dopers. I didn’t read it as offering any support for the content of Bennett’s comments.
I never agree with duffer on anything, but I thought his comment was damn funny. It was simply a version of the old “on the brighter side…” type joke, where you contrast something terrible with an insignificant upside. And a very funny and clever example of one too, IMHO.
Exactly! That, to me, is the root of the outrage – that with that one word, Bennett interjected race into it. Had he said “all babies of women on welfare”, for example, he’d at least be linking violent crime with poverty, a more tenable connection. Though even that would have racist overtones, given the use of “welfre” as a code word for “black” among the bigoted.
While I agree with Eonwe et al, I think there’s something else to consider - who in their right mind would ever choose that as an example in a public forum? Whether or not there’s any indication that he holds objectionable views, it’s still a fucking stupid and inflammatory thing to say.
For the record, I got the joke. Unfortunately, you forgot to put the tags [sarcasm] around the statement. I’ve lamented before about the inability of many to spot obvious sarcastic, facetious, or over-the-top statements.
It does to me because, if one were to argue that it is the “culture”* of African-Americans that leads to a “culture” of crime, then one would suggest taking all black children away from their parents and giving them to white people so that they aren’t in that “culture.”
Killing them suggests that Bennett believes it’s inborn.
If someone wanted to argue that Bennett was just trying to make a point, then why didn’t he say, “abort every poor baby in America,” or “abort every male baby in America”? He brought the race blankie in, he can lie on it.
*I’m putting culture in scare quotes because I’ve heard too damned many white persons use that word as code for their racism.
Wouldn’t been as funny with tags.
OK, that got a grin out of me. But that claim is factually incorrect, as Bennett’s quote clearly does not reference VOLUNTARY abortion.
That said, I hate racism just about as much as anybody, and I despite William Bennett for his role as drug czar and would-be morality watchdog, but the context makes it clear that Bennett was not advocating aborting black babies, just making a rhetorical point, so I have to give him a pass on this one. Rest assured, he’ll say something really stupid very soon.
I’m with Cerberus on this one. Bennett doesn’t win any points here for sensitivity, but he was patently not calling for black children to be aborted to reduce the crime rate. He was engaging in a little reductio ad absurdam. Also, these were not prepared remarks, they were in answer to a question. In hindsight, it’s obvious his remarks were inflammatory and open to misinterpration, but that’s the problem sometimes with giving answers off the cuff.
So if we decimate Black babies…
Sorry. I can’t turn down an opportunity to use the word decimate correctly.
I’m not prepated to call Bennett a racist just on this. I agree with the others who say that he put his foot in his mouth making a ridiculously absurd arguement.
This isn’t about Bennett’s advocating the abortion of black babies, the question is why in a reductio ad absurdam would he tie race and specifically blacks? The first off the cuff thing to say was aborting black babies? I honesty asked myself, what would I say in such a situation and my first response was, let’s abort 50% of the population. THAT’s an reductio ad absurdam. If your first off the cuff response to a question about crime prevention and abortion, is to target a specific race…something’s not right with your value system.
My main problem is the fact he associates propensity to crime with being black. Not with being in poverty, not with coming from terrible homes, etc., but the race itself. (The same book referenced, Freakonomics, also discusses blacks raised in middle class and upper class homes- they perform the same as whites and Asian-Amcns and anybody else raised in middle class and upper class homes, while whites and Asian-Amcns. raised in urban poverty with poor role models are far more likely to… guess what? Become criminals.
It was a stupid comment. I don’t doubt that his synapses misfired, but he’s a public speaker and he’s paid really well for it (mostly in chips, I understand). He needs to take the backlash like a man, for it is not unreasonable to associate with racism a man who associates being black with innate criminal tendencies.
But isn’t that the whole point - that there’s a correlation (which as any fule kno does not equate to a causation) and that though the “solution” might have the desired effect, it is so patently a wrong-headed solution that anyone should recognise it as being absurd?
You grossly overestimate the ability of the American public to think analytically.
Holmes, you’re right, of course, that Bennett could have made the same argument without reference to race. But part of the reductio ad absurdam is to accentuate the absurd, and in this case, pulling in the racial element adds a certain piquancy to his example. Of course it was insensitive and potentially baiting, but in his defense, I think all of us have said stupid things off the cuff that later caused us to go “Ouch!” It’s kind of an occupational hazard for the guy. I’m not asserting that he’s not a racist, I’m only asserting that he’s not proven to be a racist on the evidence presented here.
Though, for what it’s worth, I’m prepared to believe the worst of the guy. I think he’s a hypocritical maggot, at an absolute minimum.
Since when does “pro-choice” mean forcing abortions on people? I suggest you go to a dictionary site and look up the word CHOICE.
The two sides of the abortion debate are anti-abortion and pro-choice.
See, this is why you need [sarcasm] tags, Revtim.
Holmes said what I’d have liked to.
I’m prepared to call Bennett a panderer to racist attitudes by picking the one ethnic group outside Latinos and Italian-Americans associated with violent crime rates in his little “example.”
“Abort black babies.” Why God hasn’t seen fit to bring this man low with myocardial infarction…
For Ghu’s sake, he was clearly stating this as a reductio ad absurdum example of why some things are considered unacceptable even if a purely pragmatic calculation points toward them.
That said, I give odds at 20:1 that you will remain impervious to facts.