Windy City correction

Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports
1

There was some discussion regarding where the nickname
“Windy city”, for Chicago, came from. I find I must disagree with conclusion published. Of course nothing will be traced to the exact origin, but folklore usually starts with local facts. I therefore recommend we concentrate on the local folks for the true story.

 My grandfather was born in Chicago in 1871.  His father came to Chicago in 1854.  According to my grandfather, locals had been calling Chicago the "Windy City" for as long as he could remember.  His father told him it was nicknamed the "windy city" because of  unusually "windy" or long winded political debates which occured in that city during the 1864 or 1868 election.  I was born and raised in Chicago.  Many of the old "folks" in Chicago have cited the same/very similar story.  Because it was local lore at that time, no one cared to explain it.  It was just one of those phrases that was repeated and stuck.  No one in Chicago ever mentioned the term starting anywhere else but in Chicago, and it truly had nothing to do with the weather.  I really don't think it is plausible that a New Yorker came up with anything that original!

 I believe the older generation from that area probably knew more of what they were talking about than we could try guessing at today.

Thanks,

Joy Fullerton :rolleyes: :smiley:

2

To add to the my already posted thread, I include the following referenced post to which I was replying–
Why can’t Cecil get his facts straight about the origin of “Big Apple” and mention John J. Fitz Gerald? And what about “Windy City”?
17-Sep-1999

3

Thank thee for thy contribution to the Fight Against Ignorance. As Unc says:

So I suppose Gramps’ explanation is as good as any other.
Here is the column as a Link. :smiley:

Why can’t Cecil get his facts straight about the origin of “Big Apple” and mention John J. Fitz Gerald? And what about “Windy City”?.

4

Joy. If you had to guess, when would you have had this conversation with your grandfather? When were you born(sorry to be personal).

Quite often parents/grandparents say things which are offered in good faith, but, in reality, are merely repeating what they were told. That doesn’t make them correct. On the otherhand, that doesn’t make them incorrect.

5

Samclem,
If I had to guess, the discussion occured in 1949, a year before “Gramps” died. My brother, then 12, needed information about Chicago history for school. I was younger (that’s all you’ll get). Grandpa used to love to share history stories with us kids.

We grew up on the south side, in a neighborhood which was populated both by natives and immigrants. The neighborhood was rich with older couples (in their 70s or so) that used to sit out on porches at night (a past time that was back before TV and drive by shootings) and tell us neighborhood kids about “the old days”. One elderly couple that lived across the street from me had talked about “the windy election”. Many other folks had heard the same stories. Of course, this was “folklore”, something half the information regarding early history is based on. By then, date wasn’t important, it was just fun to hear the stories! If you know anything about the political history in Chicago–it is quite believable!

I only wanted to give Grandpa’s side of it because it seems that the tales have run away with the facts. I was raised a Chicagoan, and although I no longer live there (and don’t wish to) I will always love my home town. I would love to see someone dispell that simple minded, idiotic story that the name comes from “the wind off of the lake”. Though lake breezes are often a blessing and a curse to the city, that being the cause for the name can’t be further from the truth. Just as unbelievable as saying “The windy city” nickname was created by an easterner!

Young people deserve to hear another side to the story and so I share mine. Not to offend, only to keep people informed. Frankly, I believe MY story. Whatever the truth of that folklore, it’s no less believable than the cow that burned down the entire city?

However, I understand that others may have different beliefs, and I will defend to the death their right to their beliefs.
Have a great day and may the “wind” be ever at your back.:cool:

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“(a past time that was back before … drive by shootings)”

Before drive-by shootings?! :confused: What were the gangsters doing as they fought over territory before, during, and after Prohibition? Throwing eggs and rotten tomatoes at each other?

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Hi John,
Well, I can see you’ve kept up on your history of Chicago in the 1920s! Very good. You seem to focus on my comment about “drive-by shootings”. Are you saying those crimes now are no worse than they were back in the “bootleg days”?

Those gangsters you refer to didn’t make as big a mess in Chicago as the movies would portray.
Yes, gangsters “rubbed people out”. As I recall hearing, they were quite precise as to who they were after and how they went about it. Sounds pretty calculatted, huh?

But unlike today, people then were not frightened to be out walking the streets at night. Driving around wasn’t the fascination it is now. In fact anyone who had a car was a 1 car family (if they were lucky and working). So people did a lot of walking around the neighborhoods getting to know each other. Kids didn’t have to be supervised every minute of every day, and the only warnings were “don’t take candy from or talk to strangers” and “A policeman is always your best friend”. In the 20s and 30s people were more willing to watch out for and care for each other.

A final point on that time–No, they didn’t throw eggs and rotten tomatoes. Those were items that (despite what’s in the movies) people consumed, not wasted or let rot!

Now for the times I WAS referring to–“the suburban era” of the 50s. That was a more affluent time and neighborhoods were replaced by the suburbs. We still stayed out after dark playing with each other, running from house to house, sitting on front porches talking. Tell me where you see that today, unless the kids are up to no good? You’d have to be crazy to let your kid out like that now, or even an adult for that matter. Everyone is a stranger and that word “stranger” has many meanings!

But, my whole point is, that was a neighborly, friendly time and people shared what they had including their stories and folklore. The nickname “Windy City” IS NOT from the wind off the lake! If you want to know the real scoop on history, talk to a source as close to the story as you can get. The old folks in your communities have a lot of interesting tales to tell if they’re given the time of day to tell them. They’re better than a comic book or the movies!!:wink:

Anyway, thanks for a delightful, comparative commentary:D Hope you like mine!:slight_smile:

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Although a bit younger than GrannyJoy, the politician explanation is always the one I hear floating around the city. I never heard it traced back to a specific political election, though, so that was interesting. I always that it refered to the politicians being full of hot air. The continued political corruption probably accounted for the phrases staying power.

Sure, there’s a lake breeze, but it only occassionally blows off the lake and the isn’t usually all that strong. Although it has given birth to the ubiquitous summer time phrase “cooler by the lake.”

Tom

9

Thanks Tom,
I see we have a thinker in our midst.
I always found it interesting that so many people in Chicago accepted the “lake” theory for the nickname “Windy city”. But, why not Duluth, Milwaukee, Toledo, Buffalo? They’re all on the great lakes but not as windy?:smack:

And you’re right! 90 degrees anywhere in that city still feels like 90 degrees everywhere.

I like your conclusion that the corruption probably accounted for the phrase’s staying power. Your present administration’s paternity can certainly attest to that:p

Never-the-less, Chicago is a great city with great people! They have to be–look how they’ve withstood all those political winds.:wink:

  One last point--I am not as old as many may think but I am older than I'd like to be:eek:   Not an uncommon thing amonst us humans.  But through the years the one thing I have learned (among many others) is that Life is a gift kept in a classroom.  Don't sweat it, grieve it, spoil it.  Just enjoy it and cherish it and leave behind something to be proud of.  Something those who come after you, can use to make this a better world.  That's not garbage, it's the way it needs to be!! :D

May the sun warm your heart, the winds keep your mind clear, and the rains wash your troubles away.:cool:

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GrannyJoy said:

And I think Cecil did just that.

Where does it say that?

Except when we’re discussing an item of historical fact, it is not fair to say all beliefs are equivalent. But I suppose people have the right to be idiots, though I don’t feel compelled to defend their right to my death.

11

Hi Irishman!

Your thoughts are quite interesting, but I feel I must qualify them.

First lets look at the conclusive statement in “A bite from the big apple” (By the way, that “big apple” IS New York and in the east!)

“Popik found that the nickname commonly used for Chicago switched from the Garden City to the Windy City in 1886, several years before Dana’s comment. The earliest citation was from the Louisville Courier-Journal in early January, 1886, when it was used in reference to the wind off Lake Michigan. In other words, the average mope was right all along!”

Louisville is southeast. Average Mope, yes! correct-NO!:smack:

THEN there was further clarification–when looking at the final statement (see below), the reference is to the name originating sometime earlier in the Cleveland region, again east, (the headline is from Cleveland).
" ‘We can now say that ‘Windy City’ was born in 1885 and was popularized in 1886,’ he writes. However, the fact that the term appears without further explanation over a story appearing in Cleveland suggests the term had already achieved regional notoriety by 1885 and originated sometime previously" :smack:

The above statements are erroneous and misleading. I’m here to correct them. For my point–“Gramps” was right. As for my dying for your right to your opinion–ok then let me just end with a quote: “I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”. A simple explanation for one of the articles of your Bill of Rights. Many have already died for YOUR rights and MINE.

So sorry, Irish, but I see no evidence that Cecil proved or disproved anything of Popik or Barry’s evidence. :o

Sadly, those who know the truth are dead and only told their story not publish it. The information was meant to be passed on and they have all left us with only word of mouth.

And—the top o’ the mornin’ to you!

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First, New York is in the east. Duh. I never said otherwise. But the column doesn’t say that Popik coined the term. I see where you got that, though, from the stated source as Charles Dana from New York City. Okay. But the update later shows a note from Cleveland showing the phrase in common usage. Therefore, Cecil now does not retain the earlier stated belief as the origin, negating the remark about the average mope being correct.

What it does not show is the origin of the phrase, which Cecil leaves open because there is no written cite. On that part you are in agreement.

As for the defend unto death comments, I will point out there is a distinction between the first statement you made and the latter one.

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Hi Irish,

You certainly have an active and imaginative mind?

All I’m saying is, NO, cecil didn’t prove, disprove, or even clearly state anything.

  1. In the statement below he refers to Cleveland and regional notoriety of the phrase and tries to clarify that it originated sometime earlier–BUT WHERE? The reader has to assume–CLEVELAND! That’s in the east, “Duh”!:rolleyes:
 ("a story appearing in Cleveland suggests the term had already achieved regional notoriety by 1885 and originated sometime previously")
  1. Everyone has their own beliefs. I don’t have a problem with that. I do have a problem with rejection of education and knowledge. If it is not an American philosophy that we defend each other’s right to opinions, beliefs, and ideas, then what makes us human beings (our intellect) is lost. Those who would destroy us for that principle WILL die in order to eliminate that freedom of thought. It is the greatest of freedoms and must be defended at all cost.

I don’t like plagerism so I simply stated the quote a little differently. :rolleyes:

A. However, I understand that others may have different beliefs, and I will defend to the death their right to their beliefs.

B. “I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”.

I do applaud you for your expressive opinions and the freedom to which you are able to share them. Now will you admit that “Gramps” was right?

My next topic: “What is reality?”
Anyway, good try! And God bless you always! :smiley:

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Uh … no. Given that you haven’t actually proven anything.

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The fact that the phrase was used in Cleveland does not mean it originated there. You may wish to jump to that conclusion, but I’d prefer a cite. :wink:

And to take your statement about an easterner creating the phrase from another direction, I will point out that to some people, Chicago is in the East. (I live in Houston, it’s east of me. ;))

We do agree that Cecil did not resolve the ultimate origin of the phrase, but did point out some of the earliest usages, and discard a few theories.

About beliefs - we do have the right to stand up and say any fool thing and not have the police come and haul us away. That right is vital and I certainly defend. However, if you do stand up and say some fool thing, other people have the right to stand up and say “Shut up, you moron!” Anyway, this isn’t the place for this conversation. This thread is about “The Windy City”.