"Winston tastes good like a cigarette should" - Why is this bad grammar?

Just always wondered.

It should be: “Winston tastes good as a cigraette should.”

Haj

Well, some would say that “good” should be “well,” because it’s an adverb modifying the verb “to taste” and not an adjective. But it works fine if you consider “good” to be the object of the transitive verb “to taste.” And it rhymes that way. So don’t let the Grammar Gestapo tell you otherwise.

Or that.

Definitely that, actually.

Since the cigarette has no taste buds, it doesn’t taste well. In fact, it doesn’t taste at all.

“Good” and “as” are correct.

Le sigh…

Once more into the breech.

As = in the capacity of

Like = in a manner similar to

e.g.: A lawyer is employed as a professional. The lawyer’s file clerk is employed *like[/] a professional.

The lawyer IS a professional (in the capacity). The clerk is NOT a professional, but the terms of employment are the same as those of a professional - salaried, 9-to-5, etc. - the manner of employment is the same. (Lawyers, let’s not get into above/below the line, 'K?)

Since Winston IS a cigarette, it requires AS. There used to be (believe it or not) toy cigarettes for kids which would emit “smoke” from the “lit” end.

A Winston (or Camel, or…) would smoke [/]as a cigarette.
The toy would “smoke” like a cigarette.

or, the heathen screwed up that coding AS a true putz. :slight_smile:

“Do you want good grammar or good taste?”

Man, that gave me a flashback to the first Cheech and Chong album and the “Acaoulco Gold” radio commercial.

“Good” is an adjective, not an adverb.

In the phrase “Winston tastes good like a cigarette should”, “good” is modifing the verb “tastes”, only adverbs modify verbs.

Therefore another word should be used. “Well” is an acceptable substitute. Another solution would be to phrase it “Winston has a good taste, like a cigarette should.” because in that case the word “taste” is acting as a noun. Adjectives modify nouns. “Good” is an adjective.

The “as” vs “like” question is splitting hairs by comparison. :slight_smile:

No, “good” is modifying the noun “Winston.” In this usage, “tastes” is a linking verb, substituting for and grammatically treated like the verb “is.” It’s the same principle found in “I feel bad” being correct for the meaning of feeling sick/sad etc. “I feel badly” is only correct if the meaning is your fingers don’t work properly. Likewise, “Winston tastes well” is only correct if those cigarettes have taste buds that perform well when they eat.

Don’t you ever say “this food tastes good?” It’s just a rephrasing of “this food is good-tasting” (=tasty). No one says “this food tastes well” because it’s not correct. Same thing.

Gary T

Analysis of this point here, where there’s a nice rebuttal to the ‘feel badly’ argument:

Clifton Fadiman once said, “Don’t feel bad when you hear the broadcaster say he feels badly. Just remember that all men are created equally”

Gary T
“I feel badly” is only correct if the meaning is your fingers don’t work properly

Having read the Diana Hacker piece, I’m slightly wondering about this. “Feel” can mean “sense by touch (v.t.)” (e.g. “I feel the wall”) or “experience emotion (v.i.)” (e.g. “I feel enraged”). “Badly” as an adverb can also have two meanings: “in a poor manner” (e.g. “I juggle badly”) or “intensely” (e.g. “my toe hurts me badly” - which doesn’t mean my toe is not very good at hurting me).

Looking at possible pairings, “I feel badly” could as you say mean “I sense by touch in a poor manner”. But it could also mean “I experience emotion intensely” - which would be justification for its use in an emotional context, as in “I feel badly about forgetting my aunt’s birthday”. Maybe…

However, even if it were true, it’d be a special case. There’s nothing at all wrong with “Winston tastes good”.

As long as we use “as”.

[sub]hairs split while-u-wait :)[/sub]

happyheathen
As long as we use “as”.

Absolutely!

I agree that you could have something like “I feel badly when wearing thick gloves,” but it’s always pretty clear that that’s not what’s meant by “I feel badly.”

Whether it’s right or wrong depends on your perspective.
In it’s original content, it works because it was a catchy tune to stick in your head so you’d definetly want Winstons at your next cigarette purchase.
Grammatically, it may be an imperfect sentence but aren’t a lot of lyrics?

Um, yeah, but the OP didn’t ask why it was wrong. He asked why it was bad grammar.

“My toe hurts me badly.”

In this case, the adverb “badly” modifies the verb “hurts.” All is correct.

“I feel badly about forgetting my aunt’s birthday.”

In this case the adverb “badly” is attempting to modify the pronoun “I.” It is not correct.

It’s not the specific meaning of “badly” that makes the difference. It’s whether or not “feel” is being used as a linking verb. If it is being used thus (describing one’s emotional state), it is equivalent to the verb “to be,” and an adjective (e.g. “bad”) is needed to modify the subject of the verb “feel.” Read more about it here: http://www.gsu.edu/~wwwesl/egw/vanassch.htm.

Just to echo the comments about tastes being a linking verb. It is indeed in this case. There are a handful of verbs that can be either linking verbs or action verbs. This list includes the aforementioned “feels” and “tastes”, and also “sounds”, “feels”, “becomes”, “appears”, “looks”, “remains”, “smells” and “turns”. “Seems” is also in this list but I am hard pressed to think of a situation where it is used as an action verb.

The rule of thumb (with a couple of exceptions) is that if you can substitute the word “is” (or “are”) in for the verb (from the list above) being used, you are using it as a linking verb, thus in situations like the one in the OP it would need an adjective.

Another rule of thumb: this one for the use of “like.” If you can substitute “similar to” in for the word “like”, it is correct. If you cannot, you should be using “as”. This, of course, is when you are not referring to “like” as a verb.

I often have to teach my reporters usage and the above ones are ones I suggest they commit to memory.

TV

*Gary T

“I feel badly about forgetting my aunt’s birthday.”

In this case the adverb “badly” is attempting to modify the pronoun “I.” It is not correct.*

No case for arguing a parallel to constructions such as “I itch badly”? I agree with you in general that it is at least contentious - this is just throwing an idea about - but I don’t think it can be taken as automatic that the “badly” modifies the “I”.