Wisconsin GOP passes union-stripping bill

[jayjay]

@Bricker

Gee, could it be that your opinion is simply that, and that people of good faith can disagree without being evil or stupid?

Or it could be that the GOP just hasn’t become racist or sexist enough FOR YOU to feel uncomfortable. Yet. The way they’re going, give it ten more years.

[Euphonious_Polemic]

@Bricker

Seriously – go ahead and lay out the big picture. Show me what I’m missing.

Been done and done and done here.

And you are ignoring it.

[Bricker]

@jayjay

I’m pretty sure we won’t have to wait that long.

Did I miss your reply to my offer of a wager?

[Bricker]

@Euphonious_Polemic

Been done and done and done here.

And you are ignoring it.

I’m denying it.

And for evidence, your side seems to be offering up, “Just LOOK! Can’t you see? You’re not that stupid, are you?”

(Except for margin, who is offering up little turd pellets similar to rabbit feces, only less pleasant.)

[Bricker]

@Whack-a-Mole

Yes the voters are too stupid to vote against them because they are worried about fags marrying somewhere.

So the voters’ collective intentions are the Holy Grail of Rightness… except where they’re wrong, the intolerant bastards.

[furt]

@Oldeb

Please give an example of an improved working enviroment not related to pressure from government laws or worker unions or expected pressure from same.

Sure.

Stock options
Flexible scheduling
Employee life insurance
Dental
Vision
Employee discounts
Education reimbursement
“Personal” days
Mass transit reimbursement
Casual Friday
Parental leave more than the law requires
Same-sex-partner benefits
Free or subsidised company cafeteria
Employee assistance programs
On-site massages and dry-cleaning pickup
Adoption assistance

Some of those are more common than others, but I’ve had all of them at various places I’ve worked.

The history of both paid vacations and employee retirement benefits are complicated, but certainly can’t be reduced to “nobody had them, and then the unions/laws stepped in and made them common”

[Whack-a-Mole]

@Bricker

So the voters’ collective intentions are the Holy Grail of Rightness… except where they’re wrong, the intolerant bastards.

Did any of these people campaign on rolling back child labor laws? Killing unions? Restricting student voting rights? Kicking out elected officials by fiat?

[AlienVessels]

@Bricker

OK. And the Wisconsin legislature passing a law eliminating the ability of Wisconsin public employees to collectively bargain advances to goal of defunding OSHA… how?

You have it wrong. They’re both goals and linked because they both attack values held by the opposing party.

http://www.scpr.org/news/2011/03/01/osha-budget-cut-plan-spotlights-regulatory-debate/

They’re both attacked as “bad for business”.

[Darth_Nader]

@Bricker

margin is a useless waste of oxygen

Really? She probably has boobs. You could look at those while she breathes your precious air.

Calm the fuck down, okay?

I’'m pretty sure she wouldn’t let you, if she knew.

[Bricker]

@Euphonious_Polemic

Been done and done and done here.

And you are ignoring it.

Truth is, I’m one of the very people on this board who even-handedly applies my principles to the facts, whichever side may benefit from them. Truth is, I’m one of the very people here that’s willing to admit error and concede a point. If you had any interest in actually learning something, you’d do what I do: hang out on a board that has a majority opposed to your viewpoint. I don’t have an opinion that I can’t defend rigorously against attack, because my opinions get tested here all the time.

You laugh at conservatives who don’t want to examine opposing views as you sit here in your liberal echo chamber, where everyone congratulates each other for having the correct opinion.

And you look at ME and say I should get it, by osmosis?

[Lobohan]

@Bricker

Your side of idiots just refused to back down from the claim that the “likely result” of this legislation is a return to the days of no workplace safety rules. It’s a “no shit,” certainty.

If this were just margin, I’d be bemused and casually dismissive; margin requiring no serious thought. But xenophon41 surprises me.

If the rules allowing self defense were rescinded would you find that the likely result would be more assault?

Employers want to get as much productivity out of workers for as little pay as possible. Collective bargaining is the defense workers have against that.

Protip: Just because your side wins, you shouldn’t assume it was the right thing against all evidence.

[Bricker]

@Darth_Nader

Really? She probably has boobs. You could look at those while she breathes your precious air.

Calm the fuck down, okay?

I’'m pretty sure she wouldn’t let you, if she knew.

How sexist!!

[AlienVessels]

@furt

Sure.

Stock options
Flexible scheduling
Employee life insurance
Dental
Vision
Employee discounts
Education reimbursement
“Personal” days
Mass transit reimbursement
Casual Friday
Parental leave more than the law requires
Same-sex-partner benefits
Free or subsidised company cafeteria
Employee assistance programs
On-site massages and dry-cleaning pickup
Adoption assistance

Some of those are more common than others, but I’ve had all of them at various places I’ve worked.

The history of both paid vacations and employee retirement benefits are complicated, but certainly can’t be reduced to “nobody had them, and then the unions/laws stepped in and made them common”

You’re serious? You think you’d have these benefits if the unions hadn’t been fighting long before any of them became options.

Sixteen Tons

According to Travis, the line from the chorus “another day older and deeper in debt” was a phrase often used by his father, a coal miner himself.[1] This and the line “I owe my soul to the company store” is a reference to the truck system and to debt bondage. Under this system workers were not paid cash; rather they were paid with unexchangeable credit vouchers for goods at the company store, usually referred to as scrip. This made it impossible for workers to store up cash savings. Workers also usually lived in company-owned dormitories or houses, the rent for which was automatically deducted from their pay. In the United States the truck system and associated debt bondage persisted until the strikes of the newly-formed United Mine Workers and affiliated unions forced an end to such practices.

I guess they don’t teach history in school anymore.

[Bricker]

@Lobohan

If the rules allowing self defense were rescinded would you find that the likely result would be more assault?

Employers want to get as much productivity out of workers for as little pay as possible. Collective bargaining is the defense workers have against that.

Yes, but this bill doesn’t eliminate all collective bargaining – just state government workers’ collective bargaining. The maleficent employer you’re worried about here is the state government itself.

[elucidator]

They’re only coming for the state workers of Wisconsin? Well, that’s a relief, I’m not a state worker in Wisconsin!

[Whack-a-Mole]

@Bricker

Yes, but this bill doesn’t eliminate all collective bargaining – just state government workers’ collective bargaining. The maleficent employer you’re worried about here is the state government itself.

The maleficent employer here specifically targeted unions that opposed the governor. Those who supported him are “rewarded” by not being included in this supposedly necessary bill.

Smells like retribution from the employer to me.

[Darth_Nader]

@Bricker

How sexist!!

How? Do you think boobs are a bad thing? Do you hate motherhood?

Wait. I am against some boobs right now, actually. Hmm. Very soothing.

[elucidator]

@Whack-a-Mole

The maleficent employer here specifically targeted unions that opposed the governor. Those who supported him are “rewarded” by not being included in this supposedly necessary bill.

Smells like retribution from the employer to me.

Those accusations rest on comparatively shaky ground, according to reliable lefty sources I read. My best guess is that he exempted such unions as he did due to their relative popularity amongst the people, and only marginally, if at all, due to their support of him personally.

Since they’ve all pretty much bailed out on him, the point is moot. We have solid accusations to advance here, I see no reason to include anything remotely shaky.

[Sully]

@Bricker

Yes, but this bill doesn’t eliminate all collective bargaining – just state government workers’ collective bargaining. The maleficent employer you’re worried about here is the state government itself.

Yes, the same state government that is now trying to take away the rights of workers and the middle class. They are clearly NOT interested in protecting them.

[crowmanyclouds]

Republicans say OSHA enacts expensive rules without regard to their effect on business. They’ve proposed cutting its budget this year by 20 percent, a reduction the director says would be devastating to the agency’s efforts to protect worker safety. …

… Now, Republicans in control of the House are trying to push the pendulum back. As part of their drive to cut about $61 billion from federal spending in the current fiscal year, they’ve targeted OSHA for a $99 million reduction.

“The Republicans have proposed a 20 percent cut and given [that] half a year’s over, that really means a 40 percent cut,” OSHA administrator David Michaels says. “It would really have a devastating effect on all of our activities.” …[RIGHT]CITE[/RIGHT]

CMC fnord!
Jeez AlienVessels don’t you know that company stores were part of the wonderful benefits package workers got?