What’s the deal with the three wise men?
In this report, the questioner Ben Reeves suggested that the story of the three wise men “kind of seems like European ego boosting to me”.
I’m surprised Euty didn’t pick up on the fact that Palestine isn’t actually in Europe.
Perhaps Ben was talking about the bibles being European. Still, I’m not sure why he would expect a “conversion of faith where they were from”. A conversion to what? Besides, how many charismatic and evangelical astronomers are there?
Regardless, Euty also says “Certainly the episode has its fishy aspects” but doesn’t mention the weird behavior of the Star that he discussed before.
But the Bible isn’t European. Indeed, in the context, “European” is meaningless. The Bible is a product of the oikoumene, the classical “world” of three continents, centered on the Mediterranean, which was shattered by Islam – but not until long after any part of the Christian Bible was written.
Yahbut, you pick and choose (sorry about the Jack Chick reference! 
)
You should be. Jack Chick worships Tashlan.
It is thought that the “wise men” refer to men who study astrology, something that would make them “wise”, i.e. knowing more than what is in the present or predicting the future. This idea, I believe, comes from the reference of “we have seen his star” the “wise men” use to identify the king of the jews.
I once heard a talk about the historicity of the massacre of children at Bethlehem. Apparently, at the time Bethlehem was one of a series of small outposts that ringed the cultivated fields surrounding Jerusalem–more along the lines of a bivouac than a town. The number of children living there at any given time would have been very small, and the number of male children even smaller (maybe 10-30). This doesn’t say anything as to whether or not it really happened, but it does make the scenario a little more plausible. Herod certainly performed much more heinous deeds that were recorded in the secular record.
The Bible never says how long it took the wise men to reach Jesus. Considering the distance they had to travel, they probably reached Him about 2-3 years after His birth.
It also doesn’t say when they started, so it cancels out.
Having just returned from Israel last week I learned a bit about this very matter! You will see ‘oriental’ restaurants all over the place in Arab and Jewish areas. That means you will be getting Middle Eastern food–NOT chow mein or tempura. The wise men from the ‘Orient’ were more than likely Jewish sages of the time checking to see if prophecy was coming true.
We’re beginning to reach the point of pretending that the Bible was written in English.
The word translated “wise men” is “magoi” – [ol]
[li]Magians, members of a certain Median tribe[/li][li]Persian wise men, dream interpreters[/li][li]magicians, especially frauds[/li][/ol]The word translated “orient” is “anatolon” – astronomical rising – i.e., the east. (Note the modern English name “Anatolia”, more or less equivalent to “Asia Minor”, which in classical times was the eastern part of Greece.)
However, there are references to Jesus’ age:
Matthew 2:11 “And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.”
and
Matthew 2:16 “Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men.”
Of course, these aren’t specific dates or anything, but it does give some idea of age and time.
This seems to be a link to a “who wrote the bible” site. May I suggest, since you’re talking New Testament here, that you might try Eutychus’s effort: Who wrote the bible (Part 4 - Who wrote the New Testament?" … and that will give you links to Parts 1 - 3 (Who wrote the Old Testament?)" and Part 5 (How did the Bible get compiled?). The most extensive and lengthy Staff Report to date!
The story of thewise men, magi or whatever you will is like many of the stories about the life of “Jesus”. It is a theme repeated about many of the mythical man gods who are/were worshipped by various nations throughout the “east”.
See http://www.geocities.com/inquisitive79/godmen
Inquisitive Atheists - God-Men Like Jesus (Krishna, Mithra, Horus, Attis, Buddha, and more) - Kirshna
Specifically Osiris, Horus, Krishna, were visited by wise men with gifts. Many of the other details - birthday, teaching in temple at early age, carpenter father, etc, are repeated in regard to at least a dozen of these man gods whose stories appeared hundreds or even over a thousand years before the stories of the alleged Jesus.
To the extent that there was a historical Jesus at all, he is a composite of at least four people who lived over a period of at least 200 years. They were involved in sorcery, immorality, and denied various aspects of biblical law and faith.
Tsvi Rogin
That’s sounds like just nonsense. What do you think you have to back that up?
I’m not saying it isn’t nonsense, but there have been a few books published that make this claim.
The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold
First the word is magi and king isn’t necessarily the correct translation. Astronomer or astrologer would be closer to the mark. Its quite possible, and accepted by many theologians, that the magi were from Babylon/Persia. These were either converts to Judaism or Jewish descendents who were well aware of the prophecy and looked for the signs (from the time of exile). Once they saw the signs they headed to Bethlehem (or followed the star). There is no mention of how many there were but I don’t think that’s really relevant.
More specific information here and I hate to say it, its a better answer than that provided by my beloved Straight-Dope …
I also noticed the staff reporter made the comment that “As usual, the easiest answer is always the best.” Well how about the most straightforward reading of the text? Magi followed a star and found Jesus and gave him gifts. No need to dig deeper than this unless you want to get into the Greek which I would suspect supports this straightforward reading.
Actually all these “copy cat” accusations have been thoroughly debunked multiple times.
Specifically you can read the related articles at Christian-Thinktank or Tekton
That “he is a composite of at least four people who lived over a period of at least 200 years”?
From the webpage: “Author Acharya makes the case that there was no actual person named Jesus, but that several characters were rolled into one mythic being inspired by the deities Mithras, Heracles/Hercules, Dionysus and many others of the Roman Empire.”
From that webpage: “first century Jewish mystics adapted the potent symbolism of the Osiris-Dionysus myths into a myth of their own, the hero of which was the Jewish dying and resurrecting godman Jesus. Therefore, the story of Jesus is a consciously crafted vehicle for encoded spiritual teachings created by Jewish Gnostics.”
Similar stuff there.
Doesn’t seem to be any support for the notion in any of the three books.
::: Moderator pounds gavel for attention :::
The question of whether Jesus really existed was discussed by Cecil: Did Jesus really exist? and so properly belongs in the forum COMMENTS ON CECIL’S COLUMNS or in the forum GREAT DEBATES. But not here, and not in this thread.
This thread should be about the Staff Report on the Magi.
Thanks for your prompt attention.
What I want to know is which one gave the tortoiseshell comb?
RR