(italics mine) I call the new translation the PtL – the pledge to liberty.
Define founded. The Constitution was our second attempt to put our founding principles into effect. We have since refined that attempt 27 times.
If you think none of our founding fathers understood the full promise of liberty, you are mistaken.
Maybe it is time to try again. Do you remember slavery and jim crow? We know so much more now than we did when the Constitution was written. Yet, even now we are fighting and dying for liberty. Excuse me, I mean less tyranny.
It seems to me that something’s broke. The fix just seems so obvious to me.
(blahs mine).
Obviously we also need hire interpreters as it seems no one understands that these are our founding principles and that all legislation and justice gains its legitimacy based solely on these principles.
There is no need to incur official government expense. I know that most do not understand, but the government is we the people. If someone happens to be in a courthouse tomorrow, make a nice sign of the PtL and present it to a judge. Tell the judge you wish to place the sign for exhibit on behalf of both plaintiff and defendant. Explain to the judge what it signifies. Make note if anyone objects and report back to this thread.
I believe that even simple ideas can cause a drastic change - I call it the butterfly effect. This idea might even cause the south to consider another succession.
ItS
r~
That’s a completely different thesis than you started out with, and a much more interesting debate, if you ask me. May I suggest that you frame debates more along those lines instead of posting enigmatic phrases and then lecturing people because they don’t udnerstand them?
At any rate, I think posting signs on courthouses is a complete waste of time and won’t even begin to accomplish what you want. The more you post something like that, the less people will see it. It just becomes part of the backgorund.
PS: You might want to think of another term besideds “butterfly effect”. That one’s already taken.
So I’m sure you’ll be easily able to cite occurances of the phrase “peaeful quest” in the Federalist Papers, the writings of Thomas Jefferson, the works of Thomas Paine and similar documents.
And that would be… good, or something?
Personally, I think posting “Cry the yellow freedom!” would work as well.
Let us see if anyone reports on the courthouse quest. As I said, I am always looking for better and fewer words. Please share with us your best words. The masses may be ignorant, but most have the ability to understand these truths; once they are translated.
BTW: It is the same effect raised to the next dimension.
I think what you need to do, rw, is explain, clearly, what the heck you mean by “peaceful quest.” To most of us, “quest” is a word generally used in fantasy novels.
Bryan Again, I am sorry for any confusion. This is a translation (#2), a two worded synonym, if you will, of the word liberty. You tell me, how many times must the word “liberty” appear in your historical documents before you accept it for others?
:dubious: Mmm . . . No, it isn’t, rw. I think you’ll find most people nowadays regard our government as “legitimate” because it is democratic; while lawyers and historians regard it as “legitimate” for the same reasons other governments are considered legitimate (mainly, general consensus and acceptance of its legitimacy).
I very much doubt you will find any SC justice or any constitutional scholar who supports that view.
We all speak our own tongue, but few try to understand others. I thank you for trying to understand mine. The important word is peaceful. Your immediate quest is whatever you choose to do right now. Make it peaceful. My fantasy happens to be world peace. Do you care to join?
What is your translation?
All are equal in ______________.
ItS
r~
P.S. “All are equal in peaceful activity” just does not work. It has too many syllables; there is no rhythm; it is not poetic. We the people need a chant.
I didn’t ask about the word “liberty”, I asked about the words “peaceful quest”. Was that unclear? Sorry. I’ll try to make it clearer.
You… say… “peaceful quest”… good. In… old… old… old… words… written… by… guys… who… make… America. Me… say… “where?” If… words… “peaceful quest”… NOT… appear… in… good… old… America… maybe… they… not… good… choice… because… now… time… guys… not… understand… good…and… need… explain.
O… kay…?
Try answering the questions that are being asked instead of making up crap in an effort to seem smug and condescending, since you haven’t established the credentials for either.
Besides, they’re not “my” historical documents, as I’m not actually an American.
I am sad to say that you are probably correct. You do not need to remind me that lawyers and pharisees have bound liberty with their words and constitutions from the beginning.
Obviously not. What did your constitutional scholars say before these were struck down?
Damn their oily hides! How dare they use words?! That dog won’t hunt! CRY THE YELLOW FREEDOM!!!
[SUB]In case the above slogan needs to be explained, suffice it to say that “yellow” is a color on the rainbow between orange and green. Any further requests for clarification will be reported to the New Liberty Committee for processing and extermination.[/sub]
I’m speaking English. What you’re using is a mystery. I asked where, if anywhere, the phrase “peaceful quest” appeared in revolution-era writings. If it does not, would it be fair to say that it is not a phrase associated with that era, thus it forms no emotional linkage to some idealized time you seem to be describing that existed before freedom in America was hijacked by lawyers and, heh, pharisees?
Does a phrase that needs to be explained make for a good slogan? I expect not. I suppose one could translate Franklin’s Early to bed and early to rise makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise to Get to sleep before Letterman, wake up before Couric and you’ll feel good, get rich and be smart but it’s a safe bet that few who read the translated version will immediately connect it to the original. It doesn’t mean they are ignorant - just that a pointless layer of obfuscation has been put in their way. Creating such obfuscation is hardly an accomplishment of any merit, unless you somehow like confusing people as a means to feeling superior to them.
Why doesn’t With Liberty and Justice for All work as a slogan? It’s familiar, comprehensible and short. It flows nicely and expresses a noble sentiment without ambiguity or qualification. If any slogan was to be carved into a courthouse, I can’t offhand think of a better one.
I don’t understand why you need a modifying phrase, rw. I like:
“All are equal.”
What’s wrong with that?
Gosh, I think the LAST thing anyone needs is a new slogan. Slogans, chants and buzzwords are the tools of tyrants. What we need is for people to question what’s written on the courthouse wall.
Why is it that some are still denied liberty and justice if that old slogan works so well?
I have stated as clearly as possible that the pledge of liberty is a new translation of the founding principles. I am sorry if you are still confused. The words “peaceful quest” are not in the founding documents; the equivalent word “liberty” is.
Rick “All are equal” has not worked either.
However, please tell me how a tyrant could use the PtL as a tool. If you take your time and re-read this thread, I think you will find that potential tyrants tend to fear these words and this spirit. Also, please take your time in responding. I will be back later tomorrow.
What exactly do you mean by “the founding principles”? Read the Preamble to the U.S. Constitution. There is mention of “the blessings of liberty,” but the rest is about more activist functions of government – justice, tranquility, defense, and general welfare. Things that can only be achieved by levying taxes. Very heavy taxes. And things that can only be achieved by, in some respects and in some circumstances, valuing equality more highly than liberty.
Well, of course not. It’s just a platitude. Platitudes only work to make us feel good. They accomplish nothing, and **no words in any language you can put together will work, either. **
Tyrants never fear slogans and platitudes. All the worst tyrants have had lots of slogans and one-liners about justice, freedom, the glory of the people, you name it.
You’re not going to come up with a set of five-to-ten word slogans that express anything interesting or useful, or that change anything worth changing. Wordsmithing never freed anyone.
