Sam does have a point.
I would hope that, should she proven to have abused the child, she is punished appropriately and the child and her siblings get some protection. And nothing else that’s surfaced about the mother speaks well of her character.
That being said, the video I saw never clearly showed her striking the child. It certainly looks like that might be what she’s doing, but I never saw an actual blow to the kid.
Sam: My dad used to hit me from in front. I mean, he would stand close in front of me and swing backwards, so no one could get a clear view. In the car, when he was in the driver’s seat and I was in the passenger seat, he knew how to keep his hand below the level of the window, out of sight of people in other cars. My mom would dig her nails into my hand until the skin broke, and no one thought anything of it, because sometimes kids just don’t like being led by the hand, right?
I wonder if Toogood ever went out with this guy?
Richilian, Sam doesn’t seem to be claiming that it’s impossilbe that abuse happened, but simply that you cannot completely conclude that from the tape. Your examples actually suggest that he’s correct, not all abuse can be visually detected by observers.
The angle of the tape, the graniness of it, make it difficult to really see what’s happening inside the car. The angle that the woman is in, vs. the apparent seating of the child would, I think, make for an awkward position with which to beat some one (which also doesnt’ mean that she wasn’t or was).
When I first heard about her being refused a refund, I immediately ('cause I work w/criminals) thought she was doing the return for refund game. That’s not uncommon with substance abusers (not saying she is).
However, if she had a prior record w/the law, it does to me at least, give her additional (non guilty sounding) reasons to want to run a bit when she heard the police were looking for her regarding this incident.
IF she harmed her child, she should recieve consequences for that. But this isn’t anywhere near the worst case I’ve heard of, seen, known of etc. As a matter of fact, what she is accused of doing (hitting her child w/her hand, shaking her, for “25 seconds”), is often called “Spanking”. when we’ve had debates re: corporal punishment for kids, there’s quite a few who advocate for open handed physical hits in certain circumstances. (note, I’m not much of a fan for ‘spanking’, either)
Yet she drives a 2002 Toyota Sequoia? ($31,265 - $42,725)
On the news yesterday (admittedly it was Fox), they said the vehicle was not hers.
All I’m trying to say, guys, is that we’re entering a dangerous new territory where ubiquitous video cameras and a rapacious media are trying and convicting people without due process.
I saw the video again, this time on CNN instead of a grainy web image, and it does look like she’s hitting the child. But if a bee were in the car that event would look about the same. Or if it were a game that mom plays with the kid where she pretends to beat away the car gnomes that wait for them when they come out from the shopping center.
The point is, we have courts and trials for a reason. And videos a lot more damning than this have been misconstrued in the past.
If the woman is guilty of hitting that child, lock her up. I have ZERO tolerance for child abuse. It makes me sick.
But convicting her of that is the job of the courts. Not CNN.
Huh? I thought Sam was saying the opposite: that a visual detection is not proof of abusive actions.
He may in fact be onto something: the mother may have been wrestling with the car seat, not the child. But what happened to me was, my parents created effective cover for pinching and slapping, so that observers would think I was simply a whiny kid.
Deep down, I know he’s right: I shouldn’t make a judgement based soley on a grainy video taken from a distance. I just had a visceral reaction, because in the past, I was the one who was misjudged. “Oh, is Rilchie acting up?” :wally (not aimed at you, Sam!)
Eight days after the video she’s turned herself in, in Indiana. She brought the daughter, the childs father and several other relatives. The little girl is at the hospital with her father being examined now.
Sorry Richliam about the spelling - I set my browser at “largest” font, so unless I do a direct quote, I’m relying on my memory and bad vision, for how a name is spelled (which is why I usually shorten names to one syllable or so)
Yea, I know Sam (See?) was suggesting that what people saw was really abuse, vs. you who had people seeing what was abuse but not able to recognize it, but you go on to see the basic point of what I was after - an over the shoulder shot from a video camera a distance away, grainy, her body blocking most of the interior of the car, well, it’s damned difficult to ascertain exactly what was going on inside the car.
and, I’d really like to hear folks discuss how this is different from what I"ve routinely heard described as “Spanking”.
Granted the camera angle was poor to get a view of the entire action. But neither shooing away a bee nor “beating away the car gnomes” nor adjusting a headrest requires a closed fist thrown in a lateral direction. That’s what I saw. I think the bitch is taking advantage of the graininess of the picture and the bad angle to posit some excuse, which was probably made up by her lawyer. If examination of the child doesn’t turn up an injury, I will be surprised.
As for “spanking,” I would never agree that using a closed fist or striking a child anywhere but on the buttocks is spanking. It is beating, and there is a vast difference between the two. Hell, I was spanked as a kid, but I would never say that I was abused. I simply was not. Spanking is really for another thread, I suppose.
wring: Well, I messed up my quote, so it evens out!
Well, she’s obviously completely repentant and is taking responsibility for her own actions.
Words fail me.
From CNN:
This in addition to the fact that the security (?) staff of the store followed them with the camera, makes one think she was trying some kind of scam in the store. Maybe the things, that she was trying to get refund from, were stolen or something.
Same CNN article…
You know the reporters were just dying to quote this little gem…
In the same story, the judge reduced her bail from the $50K the prosecution requested to $5K.
Now, I understand that bail is based on the likelihood of a suspect returning to court for their arraignment/trial as well as whether or not the suspect poses a continuing threat t society. I also understand that she will have only supervised access to her children, so it’s not like she can beat up on them just now. But stilll . . . I want this woman behind bars right now. I don’t want to hear her whining about how she made a mistake. Hint: if you check to see if the coast is clear before you beat your child, you are not making a mistake, you are doing something you know to be wrong. Mistake. Pre-meditated crime. Learn the difference.
I also think she’s got no excuse to be talking about how the state is punishing her daughter by putting her in foster care. Yeah, you may have 50 different relatives in Indiana willing to care for your daughter, but did you catch the part about how they refused to help authorities locate her so they could be sure she was okay? So, no. Your daughter will not be going to them.
To call this woman a twisted bitch is an insult to all the twisted bitches out there.
To the people who claimed that this story only got airtime because of the sensationalistic nature of the video:
So CNN didn’t grab at it to boost ratings; the police gave it to CNN to assist in their search.
Happy now? 
And if, when you’re finally run to earth, you have a different hair color, you must have known you didn’t make a “mistake”.
What gets me is when she tearfully pleads with the authorities that her daughter is being punished for a mistake she (mother) made …
Um, lady? You punished the child first, for Gods only know what reason, and without any thought of the consequences. I’m sure this isn’t a fun time for your daughter, but the authorities are trying to protect her. What were you trying to do?