Woman gets a bloody fortune for "emotional distress" after her cat is mauled by a dog

[Boldface_Type]

@Liberal

You said that everything exists in your head. There are innumerable things that exist independent of your perceptions, like black holes. They were there before you were born, and they’ll be there after you die.

With no head, the black hole does not exist for the headless one. With no head, perceptions tend to slightly damaged. With no head, one is often termed ‘dead’. Deadness is associated with many problematic conditions, such as lack of life.

Overly complicated. You’re trying to pick an argument just to argue.

Oops, fuse just went on the irony machine. Back in a mo’.

The inability to express an emotion outwardly does not preclude the experience of it internally, as anyone who has ever had a broken jaw knows.

My “claim” was unambiguous. Again, you are merely argumentative. Emotion originates in the limbic system in humans just as it does in kittens and puppies. I made no claim about residence.

Previously you said the limbic system was ‘the center’ of emotions, and ‘all emotional bonds exist in your head, specifically the limbic system’. The latter statement is incorrect, and the former is arguable (and vague). Now you are saying that emotion ‘originates’ in the limbic system, which is somewhat closer to the truth. It would be nice if you could say what you mean, rather than changing your language according to the way the wind’s blowing.

Anyway, read around the subject a bit (e.g., the cites I gave), then get back to me when you know something more than cereal-packet science. Pay particular attention to the interconnectedness of cortical systems, and the backward projections from ‘higher’ centres to those nominally lower in the cortical hierarchy. There’s a rather deep literature on this stuff, but I’m sure you can argue with researchers in the field if they disagree with what it says on your breakfast box.

Have fun.

[alice_in_wonderland]

@Excalibre

I don’t think it’s too high at all. Not only is the trauma that the woman experienced nontrivial (though I don’t see why it would have made her start smoking.) but the dude also has to face consequences for his utter negligence in letting that dog roam free and the clear contempt he showed for the system by not showing up in court. If that $45,000 fine makes him change his behavior, it could well save a child’s life. I don’t think anything much short of big personal consequences would convince that dirtbag to do the right thing.

I certainly think that some amount should be awarded, and I certainly think that numb-nuts dog owner should have his dog taken away, never be allowed to have another, and be forced to do some really crappy community service involving cleaning up dog crap, or something. However, I think $45K seems high.

Finally, Crafter Man we all get that you don’t give a rat’s-ass about your cats, consider them disposable, and think anyone who feels otherwise is deluded. You can stop posting it now. We GET it. :rolleyes:

[Contrapuntal]

@Debaser

Not allowing the owner to get another dog sounds like a good idea to me.

tdn, shredding a cat is not just being a dog. Some dogs are violent and dangerious. These dogs should be killed.

Depends on the dog, actually. I have two Jack Russell Terriers who would kill any cat that came into the yard. They have been bred to chase and kill small furry things that run along the ground. The cats would have to climb a six foot fence and jump down into a yard where two dogs are going nuts loking up at them, however. Few cats are that stupid. Shiner, the alpha bitch, kills many possums and snakes every year.

I really love my dogs and prefer their company to most humans, and frankly, depending on the human, would save them from a burning building first; but also firmly believe that to compare the love between humans to the love between humans and dogs is to devalue human love greatly. I had to put an old dog down a couple of months ago and was a wreck emotionally for a week or so, but I really don’t miss him anymore. My mother died three years ago and I miss her almost every day. It’s really not the same thing.

[CynicalGabe]

@Excalibre

But then, when one of the people in the household is gone, the cats show no signs of missing them

My cat does. When I am gone, my cat sits in front of my bedroom door crying. On several occasions, the cat has led my roomates to the door, then cried while looking back and forth into my room. I think it is quite clear that the cat understands what is going on.

And then the loving reaction I get when I return home is priceless. A few minutes of cuddling followed by anger at my having been gone. The anger is soothed by my spending some quality time with her. Not all that different from a human.

[Boldface_Type]

@Excalibre

Exactly my feelings about my cats. I love each of them dearly, but I don’t have to pretend they’re children in order to love them. And while I can’t say what I would decide if an evil supervillain made me choose between one of my cats and a random third world child (thank goodness it’s not a decision I’d ever have to make), while I think the morally right answer is to let the kid live, I’d be way more devastated about the cat.

Yes, fortunately the scenario is really just Tuesday afternoon mental mutual masturbation. However, I know I would be more devastated about the (my) cat death in the above situation, and I’m not going to pretend that I’d save the unknown kid over the known cat.

the real situation is much more complex. The functioning of the brain is not a simple matter, and the divisions into specific zones (reminiscent of phrenology, really) are of course simplifications designed to help laypeople understand matters better. Very few things are sharply localized in the brain and the way emotion and rationality are integrated in the mind is something we only have the most basic understanding of. It stands to reason that emotions, as a system, cannot be boiled down to the limbic system, and that much of the experiencer’s internal state stems from other parts of the brain.

Bingo - in a nutshell, clearly stated.

What really annoys me about the sort of cereal-packet science generalisations made by Liberal here is that they lead to the sort of garbled science vomit we see everyday in the popular press. It may be ‘nice’ to think that there’s a little ‘emotion unit’ in the brain, but this just ain’t so. We see similar misrepresentation of other science, nutrition in particular.

In vision, the striate cortex (at the back of the brain) is massively dedicated to visual processing, and one might ‘reasonably’ call it the ‘center of visual processing’, or even where vision per se originates in the brain. Yet, these statements are wrong. Visual areas are influenced by extravisual areas, and processing in visual areas can be dynamically reassigned in a matter of moments to other senses. The process of perception (and emotion) is also inexorably tied to higher brain regions, and to say ‘emotion is - or resides in - the limbic system’ (or similar for vision) is just too much of an oversimplification.

Additionally, the limbic system is also associated with memory formation (but memories don’t reside there - though certain bits of brain are associated with the storage of particular types of info).

[griffen2]

Man, I bet poor Airman didn’t see all this shit coming

[MaxTheVool]

@Excalibre

And while I can’t say what I would decide if an evil supervillain made me choose between one of my cats and a random third world child (thank goodness it’s not a decision I’d ever have to make)

I’m not normally someone who gets into a tizzy about someone’s casual choice of wording, nor am I in a tizzy now, but does the child being a third world child make a difference here?

If the supervillian said “your pet, or a random child in Africa”, what would you do? What about “your pet, or a random child in England”? What about “your pet, or a random blond, blue-eyed, 8-year old girl child in England”? What about “your pet, or blond, blue-eyed, 8-year old Jessica Hayes of London”?
(I’m not trying to pick on you, specifically, Excalibre, as I notice that I, myself, feel, at least superficially, more emotional attachment to a random white child in England than to a random unspecified child somewhere in the world… which is a bit disturbing).
On a related note:

@Boldface Type

Given the choice between one of my cats being decapitated and the head-lopping of a random child with whom I’m unaquainted, well, the kid’s mincemeat.

So if you’re in a burning building, and you’re running out of the door of your room with your pet in your arms, and there’s a baby (unknown to you) lying on the floor, crying, you would leave the baby to burn and save your pet?

Because if so, I find that TRULY wrong and disturbing.

Responding to a different thread here, I think some of you are misunderstanding the concept of premeditation. If I caught my wife in bed with another man and then killed him, and someone found a post from me on a message board saying “if I were to catch my wife in bed with another man, I would probably kill him”, that doesn’t make the actual killing premeditated. If, on the other hand, I caught a guy in bed with my wife, then went over the computer and posted “I just caught a man in bed with my wife. I think I’ll kill him”, and then killed him, that probably would (although MAYBE not if the time span was short enough).
Finally, PinkMarabou, on the one hand, I basically agree with everyone who’s been arguing with you, as you really have been coming off as combative, illogical, and unreasonable. On the other hand, I hope you realize that no one is saying that it’s unreasanable to truly and deeply love one’s pets, fight to defend them, be bereaved when they die, etc. However, I think a centrally important point is that, as a general rule, pets, while loved, valued, and important, are not as loved, valued, and important as humans, particularly family. If someone has two cats and they are both run over and killed, I will offer my sympathy, and be extra-nice and extra-sensitive towards that person for a while. I will certainly not be all “whatever, dude, they were just cats, get over it”. But if someone has two CHILDREN and they are both run over and killed, I won’t even KNOW how to react because it will be so horrible.

(Oh, and if the person who has two cats run over is still wearing black and weeping at the thought of it two years later, my attitude WILL be “whatever, dude, they were both just cats, get over it”, although likely not out loud.)

[tdn]

@Knorf

Dopers, I do apologize for not leaving this thread when I should have, when I said I would. Sheesh. Sometimes, I just can’t believe myself.

I just spent two hours away from this thread doing some serious work. Coming back here, I realize that we’re all attacking each other over kitty love. That’s the stupidest thing I could have imagined myself getting involved with today.

I’m glad you’re leaving this thread. I’m leaving too. You were a jerk, I was a jerk, everyone was a jerk. We’re all getting, ahem, catty.

What a waste of a day. Bye.

[Airman_Doors_USAF]

Yeah I did. And I cared not a whit. This pet shit is getting out of hand. There is not a single animal in the entire world more valuable than any human being. The only concession I make to animals is that they are euthanized humanely and not abused. Other than that they are self-propelled property, and no matter what the circumstances they are NOT worth $45,000. No way. Not even my dog that I grew up with. He lived for 18 years. When he died I shed a tear and went on with my life. It’s a dog. It’s a cat. In some countries it’s a meal. BFD.

[Excalibre]

@MaxTheVool

I’m not normally someone who gets into a tizzy about someone’s casual choice of wording, nor am I in a tizzy now, but does the child being a third world child make a difference here?

No, of course not. I only said that because teh third world is far away, and a lot of children tend to die there. When I think random dying child far away, the thought that springs to mind is some kid in Africa in the midst of civil war, or something like that. I don’t feel any worse for white children in industrialized countries than for brown children in the South (which is apparently the new, up-to-date way of referring to the Third World.) Either way, if I don’t know the kid, it’s a basically abstract thing to me.

[eleanorigby]

@tdn

Let’s assume your kids are already safe. Would you run in to save your pet? Or would you just figure you can pick up a replacement next week?

If someone loves her pets, why are you so threatened by that? Are you truly afraid that the government is going to force you to feed your kids kibble?

NO-I would not go back in–even if I would want to; even if I would miss that cat/dog like hell. In second grade we learned to never re-enter a burning building, as I am sure you learned, too. Chances are the kitty already succumbed to smoke inhalation or escaped out the cat flap long since. I will not risk my life (which not only do I happen to treasure, but also I ahve people who are dependent on me) for a pet. Ever.

I am not threatened by someone loving their pets–you should love your pet or not have one. I am dismayed(?) at someone likening their animal to a human–I have seen far too many spoiled dogs in my day, and I have seen cat owners literally give up pieces of furniture so that they won’t disturb the cat’s favorite napping spot. :rolleyes: Somewhere a boundary has been crossed–that is what I am addressing. But I must point out that to call human children “flesh babies” is an attempt to equate them with the so called “fur babies” aka animals (well, mammals). That’s a wee odd, and not something I want to encourage. Scratch you off the babysitting list!

It’s an animal-why not give it the dignity of its species? Again, why the need to anthropomorphize pets?

Excalibre -thank you for your lucid and balanced posting here. You are the voice of reason in the midst of much silliness.

I, too, am disturbed at the lack of concern that a child can be beheaded and that means nothing–not just nothing but less than a pet dying to whoever posted that.

And for snakecatlady -children are not “smelly”(?). Resorts and family fun destinations put structures in place that are meant to be enjoyed(tunnels, water jets etc). Children screaming thru a tunnel is just such a feature. Why not yell thru a tunnel? It’s fun, not something you can do everyday and it also echoes. It’s just kids learning about their environment. Damn kids.

I have never understood people who say that they don’t like kids–you were a kid once yourself–or did you grow up perfectly behaved and in no need of guidance? You are sounding very much like an old stick in the mud. Chances are that some of the brighter ones (if they notice you at all) act up in your presence just to piss you off…Hey, there are places where kids need to know their boundaries and be on their best behavior. You won’t find me indulgent re: bad behavior at a fine restaurant or similiar, but don’t write off the next generation because of some screaming at Sea World.

Trivia:In WW2, the British government supplied gas masks to the civilian population in case of invasion and biological warfare–they did not supply kitty and doggy masks. The horror!

[Steve_MB]

@EddyTeddyFreddy

But would I kill for my animals? I daresay not – although if I were to witness one of them being attacked by another animal or a human, I’d do whatever it took to rescue them, including physical violence sufficient to stop the attack.

If, in that situation, I have the choice of 1)nonlethal violence that requires me to get close enough to risk injury to myself or 2)a shotgun blast to the perp’s center of mass, I’m taking Door Number Two.

Given that we’re talking about someone engaging in violence on my property in a manner that communicates a clear threat to me, the law is on my side in this.

[alice_in_wonderland]

@eleanorigby

I have seen far too many spoiled dogs in my day, and I have seen cat owners literally give up pieces of furniture so that they won’t disturb the cat’s favorite napping spot. :rolleyes: Somewhere a boundary has been crossed–that is what I am addressing.

So ?I’ve seen a boat-load of spoiled children who’s parents give up the family car so Jr. doesn’t have to take the bus to school. What’s your point, exactly?

I, too, am disturbed at the lack of concern that a child can be beheaded and that means nothing–not just nothing but less than a pet dying to whoever posted that.

Noone said a headless child means nothing. They said that an unknown child dying would be less disturbing than their beloved pet dying. While I care about random children everywhere in an abstract sense, I love and care about my dog, who’s RIGHT HERE, in a concrete sense.

I have never understood people who say that they don’t like kids

And I don’t understand people who say they don’t like dogs. Again - what’s your point? That you feel one way, and everyone else should too?

[Boldface_Type]

@MaxTheVool

So if you’re in a burning building, and you’re running out of the door of your room with your pet in your arms, and there’s a baby (unknown to you) lying on the floor, crying, you would leave the baby to burn and save your pet?

Wait! The scenario is not complete! The baby is, like, nailed to the floor and the claw hammer is in a glass box, suspended from a ceiling. To break the box, you need to get hold of the Rock of Glass Breakery, which is held by this, like, big Alien from the planet Bonobo Spoonfuck. Anyway, the only way to get the rock is to offer the Alien (whose name is Trevor) a small morsel of potato. Well, it happens that the cat has, like, a potato attachment which it uses to entrap fleas using local alterations in gravity.

So, would you fight the cat to death to enable a potato exchange from the alien from Bonobo Spoonfuck thus getting hold to the rock which allows the hammer to be obtained, thus freeing the small human from his unfortunate floor-fixation?

Because if so, I find that TRULY wrong and disturbing.

Quite so. Waste of a good 'ammer, 'enry.

[Scumpup]

@Airman Doors

Yeah I did. And I cared not a whit. This pet shit is getting out of hand. There is not a single animal in the entire world more valuable than any human being.

I had a parakeet, once, that was worth more than Adolph Hitler.

[wring]

is this another of those thread wherein folks bemoan other people caring about different things than they do? Don’t think I got the memo that says we all need to have the exact same priorities as each other.

I had a friend who thought I was nuts spending (my) money on copies of movies I liked. Then she mentioned spending 2 grand recovering her couch. I refrained from sharing my opinion of her expenditures.

The dog owner in the OP, IMHO, should have had consequences for his actions. His dog damaged other’s property. Some group of people hearing all of the evidence decided to award an amount that makes Airman’s ears bleed. NOt sure where he figured into the equation, but there ya go.

Would I have awarded that amount? dunno, didn’t sit on the jury. but when I see things like “bloody fortune” and then find out that it’s 45K or so, I feel let down.

maybe I should sue.

[Steve_MB]

@clairobscur

It still distress me to think that given the choice, some people would have a strange child dying rather than their pet. And would publically admit so much without shame. It’s just beyond my understanding.

I’ll make it easier for you to understand. Picture someone driving to the store for pet food and hearing an appeal on the radio asking for money to save the children of Hellholistan. How likely is it, really, that they’re going to turn around and write that check instead of feeding Fluffy?

[alice_in_wonderland]

@Boldface Type

Wait! The scenario is not complete! The baby is, like, nailed to the floor and the claw hammer is in a glass box, suspended from a ceiling. To break the box, you need to get hold of the Rock of Glass Breakery, which is held by this, like, big Alien from the planet Bonobo Spoonfuck. Anyway, the only way to get the rock is to offer the Alien (whose name is Trevor) a small morsel of potato. Well, it happens that the cat has, like, a potato attachment which it uses to entrap fleas using local alterations in gravity.

So, would you fight the cat to death to enable a potato exchange from the alien from Bonobo Spoonfuck thus getting hold to the rock which allows the hammer to be obtained, thus freeing the small human from his unfortunate floor-fixation?.

Especially if you had to do all of this while walking on your hands?!??!

Huh? Huh? I thought not…

[Airman_Doors_USAF]

@wring

is this another of those thread wherein folks bemoan other people caring about different things than they do? Don’t think I got the memo that says we all need to have the exact same priorities as each other.

No, I bemoan a stupid judgment that vastly overvalues an animal. You don’t think $30,000 is a lot for an animal? If you don’t you’re out of your mind. Some people don’t have houses that are worth that much.

[Steve_MB]

@alice_in_wonderland

I certainly think that some amount should be awarded, and I certainly think that numb-nuts dog owner should have his dog taken away, never be allowed to have another, and be forced to do some really crappy community service involving cleaning up dog crap, or something. However, I think $45K seems high.

That’s an arguable point.

However, it seems to me that the judge didn’t have any legal grounds to make this jackass clean up doggie doo, did have legal grounds to make him cough up $45k, and considered it necessary to hit him with some kind of heavy clue-by-four to persuade him to control his dogs before they attacked a human. If so, this judgment strikes me an a commendable combination of respect for both legal process and common sense.