Sorta like the internal dilemma of trying to share complex feelings on a message board…to be clear enough not to be labeled a sociopath can sometimes require a 3-page backstory–which is too much.
I got you.
As others have already said, there really isn’t a point where you think “I’m done with this” unless there is abuse or something going on. If the relationship has just run its course and the couple no longer really have anything in common, but don’t hate each other, it’s just easier to stay on. Especially since that is “what adults do”.
Well, that’s just it - if you can manage it. How many women with small children do you know who could give them close to the kind of life they have now if she had to pay for it all herself?
Well, there are plenty of people who don’t see cheating on a loveless marriage as all that bad. Or it could be because they made the decision to stay together because of the kids but then they found Mr Right. Or they don’t realize how unhappy they have been until they meet Ms Perfect. And in the case of men, especially those with children, they lose a lot in a divorce so they aren’t going to do it unless they have someone else they want. Or their wife is a screaming harpy and they just can’t take it any more.
This is pretty much it.
I’m sure this is true for many people, but obviously not for everybody. As illustrated by digs’s example of three different friends of his who left their marriages, not because of abuse or a new love but because they didn’t want to “stay on”.
If it’s done with the spouse’s knowledge and consent, I’d more or less agree with them. If a married couple decide for whatever reason that they don’t expect sexual fidelity from each other, that’s their business.
But ISTM that bona fide cheating—that is, deliberately breaking your marriage vows on the sly instead of taking any responsibility for releasing yourself from them—is still cheating whether you love your spouse or not.
If that was the reason and not just shorthand for “I don’t really want to go into it”. Or they could have been in a position where divorce really wasn’t going to be a big deal - my divorce was like that; no kids, no property, no big deal. The only reason it took so long to get around to was neither of us had the $75.
I’m not saying it isn’t cheating, I’m saying there are plenty of people who don’t feel its “evil” or whatever to cheat on a loveless marriage. They don’t see absolute adherence to the vows, no matter what, as important as you apparently do.
Bingo. It’s not the sex that makes for cheating. It’s the lying.
Then it sounds like the OP has plenty of people to pit.
Evidently they don’t. However, note that what I’m advocating is not “absolute adherence to the vows, no matter what” but rather honesty with the partner to whom one has made those vows.
As I said above, I don’t really care if a married couple decide by mutual consent not to abide by their vows of fidelity. Nor do I think that a separated spouse who has explicitly renounced their vow of fidelity is morally obligated to abide by it just because they’re still legally married. As long as you and your partner are honest with each other about your commitment or lack of it, then I think your technical marital status is irrelevant.
But I would maintain that surreptitiously breaking that vow by deliberately deceiving your partner while masquerading as a faithful spouse is still a pretty sleazy thing to do, no matter how loveless your marriage may have become.
ETA: as DianaG said.
You are a very wise woman. I am in the throws of all of this right now. I could never have articulated this in these words. Thank you so much.
Divorced women have less economic security than women who stay married. That’s not even taking into account the idea that the children usually stay with the woman, who may or may not get decent, reliable child support for them. I’m not condoning women having a second bread-winner lined up before they dump the first one, but I can see why they do it.
Whoa. Probably your kids do not agree.
This sounds like one of the fake case studies we read in Abnormal Psych class and we had to “diagnose” the person. I’m going with Cluster B personality disorder(s).
Not always. A friend of mine got married at 19 or 20 and had never really had a chance to be a stupid young adult. Her marriage sucked but she was faithful for over 10 years, including 2 1/2 years when her husband was detained on immigration issues. Now she doesn’t divorce him because of the kids, financial issues, and the fact that they’re trying to fight his deportation. She cheats on him and I don’t think it’s OKAY, but it’s kind of understandable. (Looks really immature to go through your wild and crazy phase in your 30s though. That’s why I think people should get it out of their system when they’re young.)
Internet psychologists always crack me up.
Just really reminded me of that Abnormal Psych class exercise. But you have to admit it does really really sounds that way. Obviously what you can tell over the Internet is limited, but that doesn’t mean it’s always ridiculous to even venture a guess. If someone said they enjoy torturing animals and feel no empathy or guilt and only value other people to the extent that they can exploit them, would you have absolutely no thoughts about what might be wrong with them?
Oh, I agree. I didn’t mean to sound so one-sidedly pro-female here.
But among people of my acquaintance, the women seem to get it all out there, so at least their friends know what’s going on. In the case I mentioned she told her HUSBAND what bothered her, and he just thought it was silly of her to be bothered by that stuff, and now he’s mystified that she left him and thinks she treated him bad.
It also seems to me that the women know when the guy’s drifting away–maybe not why, and maybe it’s still a shock when he says bye-bye. Also I’m betting that this guy is married again in two years, and his ex-wife won’t be.
I tried to read the entire thread, but I can’t tell Paul from Paula through the red haze in my eyes.
Cheating is despicable. It’s one of the most profound betrayals one human can visit on another.
I believe that cheating in a dating or committed relationship is a severe breach of morality. But perhaps there are extenuating and very rare circumstances. I believe that cheating in a sworn relationship is inexcusable, and I can’t conceive of the circumstance where I could be convinced otherwise.
If it’s that bad, walk away. You fuck.
It takes time and distance to be able to articulate much of anything about it, really. But thank you.
Yup, this, thanks.
I got involved with a married man when I was still in my last year at Uni - partly because, like you say, it took me off guard. He was recently married, a few years older than me, but in a very different place in his life, what with the wife, job and mortgage, when I was still a student living with my parents. It never occured to me that he would be interested in me that way.
And then, I have to admit I fell for the “don’t worry about my wife, that’s my problem not yours” and I cheerfully turned a blind eye to her existence, or listened to his “My wife doesn’t understand me!” whinges.
My perspective as the “other woman” still doesn’t give me any sympathy for the female who went after my husband when I was pregnant with his child though. I suppose I won that one in the end though - I’m free, and she’s still stuck with him 
One of the main problems is highlighted in your example above.
People with too much time on their hands/not enough to do. The husband worked hard and was rewarded with promotions and a career. The woman stayed at home and maybe/sometime worked part time.
When the kids are young, she was very busy. As they got older, she was not so busy.
Therefore, she had much time and energy while the husband was just glad to get home and relax at night.
What the woman needed to do was GTFO of the house and start working her ass off like the guy was doing. Less time and less energy after she was done. Instead, she just sat around and got bored and her mind wandered.
Well, maybe not in your specific example above but I think one of the causes of some infidelity is some people just have too much time on their hands.
No, it’s really not. Infidelity is a symptom of a marriage with problems in it, it just puts a nice convenient name and face to the problem and gives the person a ton of pats on the back for leaving the cheating bitch/bastard. Cheating doesn’t ruin marriages, it just brings bad marriages to a head.
Sometimes. Sometimes the problem really is an entitled whiny brat who can’t control themselves enough to stay monogamous.