I am sorry. It’s just that I found Lynn’s post really interesting and realized that what she said about the urban / rural and white collar / blue collar divide explains a lot of the differences in the way people use and perceive “ma’am,” even within a fairly narrow geographic area, and I started thinking, “OK, how does my own upbringing map onto this?” I truly did not realize that what I said came across as snooty or offensive, and I apologize for it.
Keep going north. It rubs a lot of younger women (20s-30s) here the wrong way. I dislike it myself; I’d far rather be called Miss or have no honorific used at all.
I’m 31. I also work in Philadelphia in an academic environment, and, while I don’t see people around me use it frequently, they do use it, and I’ve never seen anyone take visible offense to it. I guess my point is that I’m in an urban, well-educated environment north of the mason-dixon, and it’s a non-issue among the people I know and work with. How far north do I need to go?
I’m in Canada and have no issues being called either “ma’am” or “madame” if I’m in a francophone area. However, I do remember feeling a slight psychic jolt the first time a teenager/twenty-something referred to me as “ma’am”. I wasn’t the slightest bit offended by his good manners, but I did ponder to myself in bewilderment: “…I’m an adult? When did that happen?” The sure fire way to counter the psychological effects of “ma’am” is to go to some alcohol-serving venue where you know they’ll card you.
Only when addressing my dog.
‘Ma’am. Ma’am! Please calm down, ma’am. You’re causing a scene!’
My big thing is not that you don’t like being called ma’am, but that you make a big deal out of it in a situation where you will likely never see that person again, and, even if you do, neither will remember the other person.
And, yes, saying anything at all is making a big deal out of it. I’m for all practical purposes never going to speak to you again–what the heck do you think I can do about your preference? Why make the interaction even more unpleasant by suggesting I committed a social faux pas?
Very Southern, and I use “ma’am” and “sir” habitually. It always works, too. Drive up to the Taco Bell and get a short, mean-sounding order-taker? Just give your order, and append “Thank you, ma’am”. By the time you get to the window, they’re usually friendly.
People enjoy being shown respect.
New Yorkers are reserved and standoffish, aren’t they? Except when they’re peeing on the subway, anyway…
With someone who has not been introduced?
To my mind and ear, “Mr.” and “Mrs.” only work properly when one knows the addressee’s name.
“Ms.” is only ever acceptable with women who have specifically requested it (then, of course, nothing else may be used)–but in such cases you would always know the name.
I’m still not clear how I should address Lynn Bodoni if, say, she walks up to my counter, or I see her lose something on the street.
Grew up in the south with southern manners. Every woman is ma’am, every man is sir.
Yep, that’s what it means when I say it to a customer at work.
I think it’s the otherway round; “Mrs” and “Miss” are only ever acceptable with a woman who’s specifically requested it. “Ms” is the default for adult women, unless she has a doctorate.
I think the Ms thing might be generational as much as anything. I’m 34 and it’s what I prefer. “Miss” makes me feel about eight years old (though my 90-year-old grandma insists on addressing mail to me that way, I’m not going to say anything to her) and I’m not married so Mrs. is out.
Yeah, I see both sides of this coin. I currently live in the Deep South myself, but was raised by my grandmother who happened to be from Ohio. Ma’am to me is an insult, but I would never give the reaction the OP got. The “Miss Firstname,” however, really bothers me. It’s not a sign of respect for me: I was always instructed to call my elders by “Mr or Miss Lastname” and that’s how I’ve taught my children. My kids know that their friends should call me “Mrs. Lastname” and never by my first name.
I don’t make an issue if someone calls me ma’am, but I’m always pleased when someone calls me “miss”.
I’m 52. When they started calling me ma’am, it did feel like I was officially old and sexless.
Raised in Ohio here as well. Never thought to be insulted by ma’am and I’ve heard it a time or two.
I live in Japan, and hotel staff without fail address me as “ma’am” and I hate it for this reason. Really, there’s no other word to use, and they’d probably use it even if I were in my 20’s instead of my 40’s, but I get all butthurt anyway. Poor old me!
This is what I scream to myself in my head every single time it happens, because your point is 100% correct.
Yup, this too. I have juuust enough of a grip to remember that this is my problem, not theirs, and to hike up my big girl pants and shut up. I usually deliberately switch to speaking Japanese, mainly to save the poor nice hotel people from my obnoxious, over-sensitive self.
I lived in Israel for eleven months and never even learned the Hebrew word for “Mr”. I looked it up in the dictionary once, and the word given was “mar”, which sounds suspiciously like a transliteration of the English abbreviation (Hebrew abbreviations are turned into words), so I’m not sure if that’s for real or not.
Anyway, I am neither a Southerner nor a Northerner, I’m a Westerner. I can’t remember anyone ever calling me “ma’am”, and it’s not a word I was ever taught to address women with. It does have a sound of “old lady” to it, and I would be kind of peeved if someone used it, I guess. (I’m 32 and don’t feel like an old lady quite yet.)
If you don’t know me and I don’t know you, and we are likely to remain strangers to each other, then I will bite my tongue when you call me ma’am. Usually.
But that’s not the case of the OP. The OP had been trained by the woman who objected to this form of address, and I rather wonder if the OP had been informed of her preferences on a previous occasion, since she “snapped” at him.