I definitely think that if women want the job they should have to step up to the plate and scupt their bodies to fit the standards and rigorous training that is required. I think women these days whine too much about being equal-then want to still have “special treatment” when they get the least bit scared or threatened. I have taught myself how to make it in a man’s world, and I know that more women could do the same. A slim figure with bountiful breast is not the only means of persuasion women can have. I think women should stop using “Sex” as a way to get what they want. They think they’re being professional…but let me tell you…those office suits that hug your hips or those shirts that have low necks…just the men marketers trying to find a sleazy way to keep the office sexy. They think if you’re gonna be there they might as well have a good view. So women…next time you feel threatened by a man…try to control him mentally, with thought process or tactful diction…don’t show a little leg and expect to get your way. After all the progress we’ve made…you girls that flaunt it to get what you want make me sick. Breasts are no replacement for brains. I definitely think women need to step up to the plate and match the guys…it’s very possible…just break society’s mold of the perfect woman…it’s just their scheme to keep us submissive. In other words…if ANYONE wants a job they should get it FAIR and SQUARE no bending of any rules anywhere. Oh, and here is a good booster for all you girls lookin’ for some “morale” What do you call a woman that works as hard as a man-----a lazy bitch" I live by these words…and strive to set new goals…maybe we ALL should. Life may not be fair…but I’m gonna push myself to even the odds.
Ziactrice wrote:
“You seem to think there are ‘more than enough’ big, supremely strong men to fill these positions, which as far as I’ve researched, isn’t true.”
Where is your citation for this research?
“Calling me silly and disregarding the nurse comment as ‘off the point’ only means you were avoiding my point. I just tried to turn the situation around to reflect your own small-minded attitude back at your gender. Apparently, the shoe is not so comfortable when YOU are the one to wear it, from your reaction.”
I’m not sure where to start with this mess. Did you even read any of my previous postings? Was it not clear that I am hardly small minded? If you’re not clear on this let me know and I’ll go over it for you again. And this point was silly. Sorry.
“Are there jobs men just can’t HACK because they are men? You betcha!”
Citation please. Notwithstanding anything to do with giving birth I’d be interested to hear how your references support this.
“I have lost any respect I might have still had toward you when you said you give your lady ‘friend’ shit about getting you out of the building. Frankly, if I were ever in such dire strait, I’d definitely prefer her to you.”
You don’t tease your friends? I don’t think that most people would be shocked by the idea that friends tease each other. Please don’t think I’m singling you out Z, but your reactionairy stuff is what I was trying to hedge off in my initial posting. I don’t want some hot name-calling diatribe. I wanted to hear if other people thought lowering extrance requirements for women to get into the military, police and fire departments was good. That’s all. No sexism here, just rational discussion.
I’m gonna say this one more time. I’m not trying to repeat myself, but I think Z may be missing some good points in all of this. I think women should shoot for the stars, but do it understandingly. They should know that to compete with the men they are going to have to break the society view rule of women and heft up. Women should be able to do anything they are capable of…and men as well. It is important though, for women to recognize, that no matter how fiesty you are…a 90 pound or 110 pound woman isn’t very “strong” no matter what she thinks she can do. I can remember being around 160 and still not having enough power to match the men…so I changed my diet and begann pumping iron more…and more…and more…it takes a long time to build muscles the size of mt. everest ladies…don’t be afraid to pick up for than a .5lb pink dumbell. It took me well over 10 years to get where I am…it is harder for women, but it can happen, and if you want to run with the big dogs and toot your own horn…then make sure it is something you’re capable of…not something you feel the need to be accepted in…Acceptance comes with proving you Can and Will buck up and meet the challenge…not big words or new laws passed by congress. Being a woman of 23 years…halfway through college…two kids…married for four years…I think I have started a new way of looking at women in the workplace…and I’m proud that I didn’t whine about it…I just did it.
I’m gonna say this one more time. I’m not trying to repeat myself, but I think Z may be missing some good points in all of this. I think women should shoot for the stars, but do it understandingly. They should know that to compete with the men they are going to have to break the society view rule of women and heft up. Women should be able to do anything they are capable of…and men as well. It is important though, for women to recognize, that no matter how fiesty you are…a 90 pound or 110 pound woman isn’t very “strong” no matter what she thinks she can do. I can remember being around 160 and still not having enough power to match the men…so I changed my diet and begann pumping iron more…and more…and more…it takes a long time to build muscles the size of mt. everest ladies…don’t be afraid to pick up more than a .5lb pink dumbell. It took me well over 10 years to get where I am…it is harder for women, but it can happen, and if you want to run with the big dogs and toot your own horn…then make sure it is something you’re capable of…not something you feel the need to be accepted in…Acceptance comes with proving you Can and Will buck up and meet the challenge…not big words or new laws passed by congress. Being a woman of 23 years…halfway through college…two kids…married for four years…I think I have started a new way of looking at women in the workplace…and I’m proud that I didn’t whine about it…I just did it.
“I’m not trying to repeat myself”
Lol 
Wranglerette - You sound like a cool, leveal headed woman. Good luck to you.
All right. I’m missing all the good points, not citing enough, and not arguing ‘rationally’ enough. Even though cutting out childbirth immediately seems unfair, if cutting out women’s physiological restraints isn’t also barred from the discussion. It seems to be lacking parity.
I don’t believe it IS a ‘man’s world’, any longer, and I think the sooner we as a civilization can make full use of women in all roles possible, the better off we will be all throughout our civilization.
I wasn’t trying to be ‘rabidly sexist’. I am proud to be a woman, but I have nothing against men in general. I dislike being ‘put down’ as a category in my gender, because I think it’s silly to follow a blanket stereotype in that manner. It’s like when Jefferson maintained black people could not be educated. Women can’t do tough jobs because they aren’t tough… enough. Sheesh.
I think that if a woman wants to do the job, it would be far more reasonable to set physical tests done by a qualified physician than to run her off by making her life hellacious on the job. I have taken physicals that required me to crack open a huge wheel valve, lift 50 pounds over my head (although I couldn’t hit the top rung in the rack; I wasn’t that tall, even with arms at full extension), and pass a pulmonary function (air volume capacity in the lungs). Reasonable tests, and a more open-minded review, is all I want.
Fair chance, fair tests about what the job actually requires, not just ‘women can’t do this job because they aren’t as strong/tall/imposing/masculine enough’.
That being said, no, I don’t think qualifications for any job that are set to properly reflect what the job demands should be lowered to allow ‘more’ women in than have been previously. I do however, think that the women who get in OVER those requirements ought to get more support, and less flak, from their peers. Considering the level of flak I encounter in chemical engineering, and the fact women have been chemical engineers for a hundred years now, I can only admire any woman with the guts to try and do a soldier’s duty, a fireman’s job, or become a police officer. Not only does she have to do a really tough job; she gets ‘hard sledding’ from all the men who are supposed to be her peers, instead of help and support.
That is all I was trying to say. I am sorry if I didn’t say it in the proper way, before. I’m sure this won’t change your opinion about a woman being able to carry you out of a fire. Frankly, with the 75 pounds of SCBA and fireproofed clothing, masks, and all the other gear, I doubt she could, too. Of course, I doubt a single man could either. The heat and sucking air through one of those things makes even climbing a vertical ladder out of a pit hard; I know that much because I’ve done it personally.
They do work in pairs, in those situations, don’t they, in general?
Ziactrice wrote:
“That being said, no, I don’t think qualifications for any job that are set to properly reflect what the job demands should be lowered to allow ‘more’ women in than have been previously. I do however, think that the women who get in OVER those requirements ought to get more support, and less flak, from their peers.”
I agree Z.
Ziactrice wrote:
“That being said, no, I don’t think qualifications for any job that are set to properly reflect what the job demands should be lowered to allow ‘more’ women in than have been previously. I do however, think that the women who get in OVER those requirements ought to get more support, and less flak, from their peers.”
I agree Z. I think this is a fitting conclusion to the debate.