Bejessus.
I told you how I felt. I dont like it. I told you (well implied) what I do. I get on with my life without permanent trauma.
How often does it have to result in confrontation/stalking to make it justified that I don’t like it?
I don’t get it much anymore. I don’t wander around in public often anymore, but it happened enough when I did to make me uncomfortable.
One time in particular, a guy in a car yelled at me as I walked through the parking lot of my apartment. I ignored him and kept walking, he sped after me in his car and jumped out. By that point I was running for my apartment. I didn’t look back, I have no idea how far he chased me. It was enough.
I’m getting a gun and a license to carry soon. I’m tired of being scared, it’s bull shit.
And I agree with everything MeanOldLady has said in this thread.
Just realized what I wrote is misleading. I’m not getting a gun to shoot cat callers. I’m getting a gun because (among many, many other reasons), cat calling can go from harassing words to much worse.
Maybe MeanOldLady isn’t an outlier here. I’ve been harassed like that, and so have several other women I know. And what you’re saying still comes down to blaming the victim. I cannot control someone else’s actions, and neither can MeanOldLady, or any of the other women this happens to.
Explain to me why the hell I should change anything about myself to appease some rude asshole. Explain to me why these people are incapable of exerting enough self control to not spew from their mouths whatever rudeness pops into their tiny little brains. Please.
Honestly, I don’t disbelieve you, but it seems odd to me that you are constantly experiencing something I’ve rarely seen in my whole life. Is this a locational thing? I recognize I’m a 6’ guy and so unlikely to get harassed myself, but I’ve known attractive women my whole adult life (and I’m married to one - or at least “attractive” in my opinion!) and they do not complain of being harrased with such frequency. It happens, but reasonably rarely.
If I saw a mom getting harrassed like that, I’d be outraged. I’d probably get involved.
Though maybe people in Toronto are just more reticent and don’t behave like that.
One sort of funny harrassment story: one year my wife and I went to a halloween party, and stayed quite late … we didn’t drive because we were both drinking, so the end of the party found us waiting for the night bus (this was in our younger days, cab fare wasn’t happening, even at 3 in the AM). She was dressed very fetchingly in a Japanese geshia costume (I was a Samurai). We were standing with a goup of oh 20 friends all waiting for the same bus, having all left the party … Anyway, she went to read the bus schedule, and I was talking with someone, when I hear a shout like “AAarrrrg!!!” in a masculine voice comming from her direction - I look over to see her with her fist out and a rather ugly fellow with a moustache staggering backwards clutching his bleeding nose. Naturally I rush forwards - as did we all - when, in perfect timing, ugly moustache man’s two male companions each grabbed one of his arms and dragged him off backwards, screaming obscenities and threats.
What had happened was this: moustache man, drunk and beligerent and with his two buddies, had seen my wife standing (as he thought) alone. He evidently did not realize she was with me and 20+ friends. He came right up to her, grabbed her boob, and made a disgusting remark. This earned him an instant punch in the snoot. His two friends, less drunk perhaps, had quickly realized that the crowd was moving towards them, grabbed him, and dragged him away.
The whole thing happened so quickly none of us really had any thought to pursue the matter further, but clearly if ugly mostache man’s friends hadn’t dragged him off, there would have been a brawl, or more accurately a beating, given that they were outnumbered 21 to 3. Me, I was impressed by my wife’s reflexes. She packs quite a punch. 
I’ve had it happen to me since I was 12, and I live in Milwaukee. It happened when I was a kid walking to the library in the summer; it happens now when I’m an adult walking home from my downtown job.
I have actually taught myself to cultivate a constant, slight smile, without having to actively think about maintaining it, specifically to avoid this kind of behavior. Read that again: I have permanently changed my default expression to avoid harassment from complete strangers. Does that seem right to you?
Go read the thread Catcalls and Things People Shout at You from Cars.
:rolleyes:
Being from the south, that sounds perfectly fine to me. Why should your default expression be a “I got a small cactus up my ass and I’ll cut you if you bother me”.
Yeah, “having” to have a slight smile is such a social injustice :rolleyes:
In theory, I should be able to walk around counting my big wad of washingtons without fear, but I can’t. And the fact that I can’t/shouldn’t is way down on my list of real world problems and outrages.
Are you daft? Walking around with your “big wad of Washingtons” is somewhat outside the normal bounds of human behavior, and is an invitation to receive attention at best, and an invitation to get robbed at worst. Basically what you’re saying here is that just the act of being female is an invitation to have losers shout nastiness at you. Is that what you’re saying? Really?
No, I am saying a slight smile wont kill anyone. Nor will keeping my wad in my pants.
Expecting anyone to smile for your comfort is obnoxious. I’ve also cultivated that slight smile in order to be left alone. I wear minimizer bras. I have a firearm. Even with these “precautions”, I get catcalled and heckled. I live in an urban area, and just walking the 1/8 mile to the nearest mall (which is done on a daily basis, since I have a 2-hour a day commission-only stint there), I get a comment of some sort at least half the time. I’ve been yelled at, called names, propositioned, whistled at, told to smile (apparently my cultivated smile doesn’t count, because it’s not a “real” smile), told to smile BIGGER, nearly hit by a car for apparently “failing to appreciate” some dude’s comments, asked if my boobs were real, told that SomeDude wanted to “fuck my titties”, and followed all the way to the mall.
The idiots hanging outside the mall are horrid, too, because they’ll grin and smile and say “Hey baby, what’s your hurry” and block my path into the mall. Then they’ll get upset if I get offended. “Hey, can’t you take a joke?” “It’s a compliment, baby, you should be flattered.” Of course, there’s always the “well, you’re a stuck up bitch anyway. No one wants to fuck you.” If you complain to the police or mall security, these guy policemen and security guards either think you’re over-reacting, crazy, or stupid and snotty. Because the guys never TOUCHED me, just “hovered” a few inches away and blocked my path, then the security people couldn’t do anything, and figured I was the asshole for even bothering to report such a minor thing. The ONLY time I’ve ever had any success in reporting harassing and threatening behavior was the one time I got a female police officer. She actually took me seriously.
If this happened at a high school, and the players involved were an aggressive football team, and the heckle-ee was a little nerdy guy with glasses, everyone would be up in arms. STOP THE BULLYING! and so on. But because it’s just happening to women, and women should just shut up and deal with it, or stay inside, or heck, just cultivate that smiling expression, or wear more covering clothes, or wear a minimizer bra, or get some mace, it’s just fine. Right.
Why should you have any say in somebody else’s default expression?
Fortunately, I was able to keep my “go fuck yourself” expression when I moved to New York.
I don’t really get catcalled, but I also don’t really walk anywhere - living in the burbs makes walking anywhere useful impractical or mostly impossible. I do remember as a young teen getting called at while walking around with other female friends. While I hated that a lot I also knew they were more than likely talking to my hot friends and not me - I was still awkward then - so I never took it to heart really besides yelling shit back cause I was a smartass. I have gotten hit on/gotten random compliments more the last few years. Once was “you’re pretty for a white girl” at a gas station while I was wearing a baseball cap and hoodie, but he wasn’t creepy about it, it was just a sort-of compliment that made for a funny in-joke with friends. Another was “hey miss do you have a boyfriend by any chance?” at another gas station…but again not creepy just unwanted cause I do have a boyfriend and he was ugly. But if I were to get any of these types of creepy harassing type catcalls I would have a hard time keeping my mouth shut…which could get me into trouble. Like beat the fuck up. I found myself getting kinda angry just reading about some of the experiences in this thread. People suck.
Good thing I don’t have to walk anywhere so I don’t have to worry about the possibility.
I’m a guy.
I’ve received several catcalls from (what I presume are) gay guys. I’ve received (fewer) catcalls from women.
I’ve somehow never felt the need to haul off and hit anyone. Or beat them into a hospital stay. I understand y’all have a different set of circumstances to deal with, but for fuck’s sake. Assholes are assholes–if you don’t take it as a compliment (and I generally do)–that’s understandable. But it just stands to reason that you don’t beat someone half to death over it. Christ, this is on par with the gay panic defense.
Any collection of anecdotes will make a phenomenon seem wider than it is. I read that thread when it was new.
There’s obviously a huge difference of perception in this thread. Let me tell you a story. I went 28 years as a man without knowing that catcalling was a real phenomenon. I thought it was some kind of movie trope. Then I stumbled upon the blog HollaBackNYC. After staying up all night reading these horror stories, I asked my wife if that shit ever happened to her. Her answer? “Of course, all the time, didn’t you know?” I didn’t.
To all the other oblivious men in this thread: Have you actually asked the women (or gay men) in your life (who live in cities) if this happens to them? Even if it does, they probaby don’t bring it up in casual conversation. It is humiliating, after all.
Mid thirties, 6’2", white guy here.
I work in Downtown Seattle (Belltown) and I see this shit every day. I kid you not, every day. I don’t thing men realize how widespread this is. As someone pointed out up thread it happened to them in front of their SO who didn’t even notice it.
I’ve seen girls get followed: “hey, hey, come here, hey, I just want to see you smile.” Or “hey, hey, why can’t you say ‘hi’ to me?”
The compliments: Damn girl, you fine. Oh Wow! Look at those! (staring at girls chest) and so on.
I see it on the bus at least weekly. Girl sits down, some guy sits next to her and wants to talk to her, ask her things, etc. It isn’t quite catcalling but it is the same behavior and it is worse on the bus because you’re confined. What if you get up and move, does the guy flip out? I’ve seen girls get off the bus where I knew it wasn’t their stop.
I do think that your style of dress, relative hottness and perceived social status does have something to do with it. I’ve sat outside and watched 20 something girls in low cut sun dresses get a ration of shit and then seen an older executive looking women in a skirt suit though ogled a little the guy didn’t say a word.
I some of those links that MOL posted back on page one and it is pretty mind blowing. The one of the girl who takes her phone running, alters her route was really sad. It made me sad to think that a large majority of women have to think about those things every time they leave the house.
I don’t know where this behavior comes from. Have I catcalled before? Sure, but I was in high school and college and at a party or fair or concert yelling at girls my own age who were more or less expecting it and giving back as good as they got.
Never as an adult have I seen a pretty girl across the street and felt the urge to grab my crotch and yell “Heyyyyy baaabyyy, wanna go for a cruise on the luuuvvvv boat?!” Nor have I felt compelled to run after a girl and ask her to smile for me.
Ladies: I’m sorry this happens to you. It sucks and the guys that do it are douches. But I don’t know what to do about it.
Rack-a-Bones,
One thing that might help is to speak up. When you can, support the person receiving the horrid treatment. If you have time, stand with her when she talks to the cops or security and corroborate her story. For some reason, just having a male present makes “official” people more likely to take a woman seriously. It’s demeaning, but true. I’m just glad that there’s a male out there that notices, honestly, because that’s DAMN rare. Most are in denial or just don’t see it, even when it happens right in front of them. Also, could you educate your friends, acquaintances, co-workers, that dude you’re walking with, etc. by pointing it out when it happens? They won’t notice until someone points it out to them multiple times. My husband is a wonderful man, and he still misses the catcalling or just zones it out. He only gets upset if someone touches me or I mention it.
I commend you for noticing. I hope you never have to deal with the kinds of things some of us have to deal with just for not having dangly bits.
Because, as you said in that very post…
This is absolutely correct. You can not control what anyone else does. You only have the power to change yourself. If you’re getting a reaction from people that you don’t want you have to do something about it, because if you wait for other people to change to suit you, you’re going to be waiting a very long time. If that means that you have to walk a different way to work, dress differently, or wear a different expression on your face, then that’s what you have to do.
I’m not saying it’s fair, nor am I saying that what the cat callers are doing is okay. I’m saying it is what it is.
Wow. That’s pretty much the very opposite of what I’ve been trying to say. Let’s see if I can make myself a little more understood.
I realize that MOL is not an outlier. I get it that this happens to a lot of women on a disturbingly lot of occasions. I wish it didn’t. Let me state that again: I wish that this NEVER happens to ANYONE.
I’m not blaming the victim here. I’m trying to find solutions so that she – and you – and everyone – can take control and never have to feel afraid or harassed again. And by control, I mean control over your own life, not control of someone else’s actions.
You shouldn’t have to change anything about yourself to APPEASE some rude asshole, but you might be able to take action steps to DIFFUSE the asshole. See the subtle difference there?
As for me explaining why assholes act like assholes – I don’t know. I don’t get the mindset. If I could make them stop, I promise you I would. But that’s far outside of my power. The best I can do is exert some power over my own life, and lend help wherever I can. That’s what I’m trying to do here.