This has been a fascinating thread. My experience has been nothing like MeanOldLady’s and others who report near-constant harassment on American streets. I’m trying to figure out whether this is largely a matter of perception or an actual vast difference in experience.
This rings true to me. My experience is like that of DianaG. I’m a pretty-enough girl who doesn’t dress like a bag woman, so sure, I get complements sometimes from strangers (maybe once a week?), and occasional lewd an inappropriate comments (once a year?). I smile at the complements and ignore the lewdness, and go on about my day. I can’t remember a single time in America where I felt physically threatened by a man on the street. But probably part of that is that I generally assume 99% of people are mostly friendly and not out to hurt me. I’m also frequently occupied by my own thoughts, and probably don’t even notice some of the (negative?) attention I do get. I know when I’m out with my husband, he is much more likely to perceive a situation as potentially volatile than I am. Maybe it’s my being from the South?
Hell, I didn’t know either, and apparently I’m a victim of all this.
Somehow I don’t believe that not being afraid of strangers makes us more at risk for assault. I’m utterly lax about personal and home security and have never been mugged or assaulted or anything like it.
I’ve always ignored comments that weren’t friendly, and no one in the States has ever escalated the situation that I can remember. Apparently other women have different experiences, but it’s odd to me how wildly different they seem to be.
Reading this thread, you would think that a woman could not walk down a city street in the States without harassment of some sort. I’m not sure that’s really accurate.
This is my exact experience, minus the crazy guy.
Maybe start another tread? I’m curious, too.
Latin countries are different. The one time I have felt harassed in the streets was in Peru, where I was hounded constantly, husband or no. And it was definitely aggressive a lot of the time.
I have experienced both the constant harassment and the radio silence that various women here have mentioned. When I was in my twenties and early thirties, I got street harassment two or three times a week, at least. Being followed was rarer, but happened a few times a year. Once someone yelled an obscenity over the railing at me in a T station, and then spat on my hat. Nowadays I don’t spend as much time walking (I moved to a less walkable city), but even when I do, I am rarely harassed.
I found that it peaked when I was mildly overweight, then tapered off as I got fatter. Or maybe as I got older - they happened at the same time - but at the time I felt that my weight had something to do with it.
It’s also possible that it’s related to other things, like location, demographics, percentage of men with spare time one their hands, religion, etc. I know I experienced much less harassment before I started walking with a cane (possible sign of weakness?), and before I moved to my current urban location. So other factors could have much to do with it.
It’s clear there are some very fucked up, damaged women here. I’m sorry your experiences are so incredibly suffering on a daily basis. But that does not appear to be the norm in 2009 USA.
This looks like a typical “Internet tough guy” attitude with a sex change. Fantasies of kicking the guy’s ass when there is so much as a whistle in your direction. Nasty comments = tasers. Anything more will get a S&W 45.
At the end of the day there will be women who can walk around major cities without a problem and women who will cower every time a man asks her for directions.
I think we know which are the women in this thread…
By equating the two, anyone who says that the occasional cat call isn’t all that bad can be responded to with, “Are you saying that rape isn’t a terrible thing?” I’d be willing to bet that a victim of rape would be horrified at that analogy.
Since I’ve gotten bored with having the same argument over and over again, let me say a few things before I leave this thread. I recognize that cat calling happens and that it happens often enough that some women have every right to be very frustrated with it. I also believe that a few people in this thread are exaggerating well beyond what they’ve actually experienced in order to…well, I’ve never understood why one would lie other than because they because they can.
If a guy puts his hands on you or makes you feel otherwise physically threatened, by all means mace the guy. However, macing or pulling a knife or gun on a guy because he whistled at you is an inappropriate response, no matter what your past experiences have been. You’re not going to teach him a lesson, and even if you do it will probably not be the lesson you intend. If you disagree, you’re wrong. And yes, it really is just that simple.
Okay, I think I see where we’re getting confused: an analogy isn’t an equation. (I think it’s unwise to make assumptions about who is and isn’t a survivor of sexual assault, by the way, especially considering the statistics on how common it is.) Saying that street harassment is analogous to sexual assault is not saying that they are the same thing, which you can point out if anyone says “Are you saying rape isn’t a terrible thing?” to you.
Yeah, I probably would. I’d be mad as hell if I went some place where I had to wear a burqa too. Fuck that. As several posters have mentioned here, going abroad is sheer insanity. Hell, my mother is Costa Rican, and I’ve been to that country of hers. Men there just say whatever the fuck they want to women, and that’s just how it is. I have never seen so much crotch-grabbing from random guys in my life! Those people are absolutely insane.
Saying it happens regularly isn’t the same as saying that every single time natural sunlight hits our faces, cars slow down, people stop walking their dogs, and shop owners come out to throw rocks at us. We’re saying it’s common for strange men to whistle at, Hey Baby, follow, name-call when rejected, say some really crude sexually explicit shit to, and follow women who they’ve never met on the street. Of course, the Hey Baby is more common than the following, but they all happen. So with what frequency does this have to occur before someone is right to be upset about it? Don’t say anything silly like once. Seriously. Once a week? Once a month? Once a month for the rest of her life?
Reading through entire threads is not allowed, apparently. The rule is: Find one comment to harp all over, and ignore everything else that’s been said.
Seriously, my experiences with catcalling have been similar to DianaG and Renee’s. And I’m not that pretty, and many times I DO dress down (Tshirts and jeans)…
Catcallers are like the people trying to sell stuff at you in the street or at the mall… or like the preachers on the sidewalk. Ignore and continue my day… When they’re just compliments (You’re pretty!), then yes, I smile. Otherwise, I keep going… I don’t pay attention to most strangers, why should I pay attention to them? Let them waste their energy, my life and my day are more important to me.
And I say this even though I’ve been to many Latin countries (I’m an islander born and raised), I walk through minority neighborhoods, and gone to places on my own.
Do you live in an area with a high concentration of mercury in the water or something? How often is “sometimes”? Is it “happens a lot”, “happened once”, “happened to my sister’s boyfriend’s cousin”, or “could happen”?
I really, really don’t buy this idea that every encounter with a mouthy guy is just fraught with the potential for violence.
Please point out one place where I said the available options were to cower, engage in physical violence, or involve the police, or anything remotely resembling such. I guarantee you’re not going to find it. I have said repeatedly that the problem is that there currently is no good option, a safe way to stop the harassment (not just ignore it) without resorting to violence. And what happens if I come back with a “fuck you” (which I often do, by the way), and the guy decides he’s going to teach me a lesson for being an uppity bitch? I may be tall, but I’ve got no real upper body strength to speak of. A lot of guys are going to out-muscle me by a significant factor.
I certainly hope you’ve never stepped outside on a hot day and said, “Wow, it’s like an oven out here!” Because those two things are not even remotely analogous, you know. After all, it probably wasn’t more than 100 degrees outside, while the oven would have been at least 300 or 400 degrees–maybe more! :rolleyes:
Like temperature, sexual harassment is a spectrum. At the low end, you have catcalling and other verbal harassment. At the high end, you have rape. But this spectrum is defined by a particular attitude towards women just as temperature is defined by the movement of molecules.
You’re supposed to use the stick shift, silly.
Then you’re completely fucking wrong. I walk around my city (~1.5 million people in the metro area) without a problem. I spent a while living in Tokyo (~12 million people) and had no problems walking around there. I am just sick of being treated like a piece of meat by strangers, something that exists for nothing other than their sexual gratification, with no concern for my own personhood, and never being quite sure what kind of other societal boundaries they’ll be willing to cross. So yeah, standing up for my rights as a fucking human being clearly makes me a whiny, frightened little bitch.
Yeah, except I’ve never had street peddlers follow me, or call me a bitch, or question whether or not I thought I was too good for what they were selling, etc. They ram a CD in your face, you keep walking, and that’s the end of that. While a lot of street hecklers will go away if ignored, a lot of them will not. A lot of them will keep heckling (Dude, can’t you see I don’t want to talk to you?), and in some cases turn nasty or even follow you. If every asshole just left it at mere pestering, a simple whistle or “Hey babe,” I’d regard them with a slightly higher level of irritation than I do the guy who’s selling bootlegged DVDs. Street preachers and the like have *never *been persistent enough to bug me after they’ve been ignored. They also bother me less because they’re not specifically sexist. They’re equal opportunity annoying people.
And folks, enough about the stories of how you look. These men don’t do it because we’re pretty. They do it to everyone --fat girls, skinny girls, pretty girls, not-so-pretty girls-- because they’re dicks. I will concede this much, and this much only: I would guess that a morbidly obese 70 year old woman in a wheelchair, hooked up to an oxygen tank gets catcalled on the street, oh, never. Outside of that, the way you look has nothing to do with it. You think the fuckheads outside of CVS on Friday looked at me and said, “You know, I’m generally respectful toward women, but she… I’m not sure what it is. Is she pretty? Is she weak? Is she strong? Is the stuck up bitch too strong? I don’t know, but I have to… HEY!!! HEY GIRL! Can’t… resist… bothering her… HEY! Oh, my, I never do this to strange women, but… HEY, I’M TALKING TO YOU! YOU THINK YOU’RE TOO GOOD FOR ME? HUH?!” Yeah, that’s what happened.
No, at the end of the day there will be men who treat women like equals and those who think everyone and her friends needs to know what gives the guy a boner. Or are so unhappy with themselves they need to find someone to put in her place. Or got burned once and have decided anyone with a vagina is fair game for their vile.
If you’ll notice, most of the posts here from women who’ve experienced street harassment are about their various experiences and reactions, not fantasy scenarios of driving a car up on the sidewalk on the downtown strip.
While I agree that part of this has to do with the potential for violence, I am as concerned by a thousand little cuts. Sorry, but I don’t think walking around as a girl or woman makes you open to a very vocal panel of strange judges. We can do better than that.
A whistle says, “I am getting sexual pleasure from looking at you, and I would like to get more sexual pleasure from having intercourse with you. I do not care whether or not you have any desire to serve as the object of my sexual pleasure. You should be gratified and honored that you are an object of my sexual pleasure.”
See how that demonstrates the same kind of objectification that has its worst expression in rape? Nobody who truly cares about the individual worth and dignity of another human being would put their need for power/sexual pleasure over that other person’s right to choose who to engage in sexual intercourse with. It’s a much, much, much bigger injustice, but it is rooted in the same fundamental attitude of disrespect.
If you read it, shoudln’t you have your poll data?
