Whistle can mean a lot of things. Mostly it means, “Yer pretty.”
As for the motivations for raping someone I think that one’s been pretty well gone over. Power dynamics, hate for women, Mommy never loved me yadda yadda yadda.
I’m not implying it, I’m outright saying it. Although insecurity might be a better word than shyness. I have serious doubts that any guy that would do that is terribly secure in his masculinity.
Alternatively, just because you DO choose to feel threatened doesn’t mean that a threat exists.
And how is this different from, “Can I buy you a drink?”
No. Men want to have sex with women, and they objectify them. There is nothing wrong with that. It’s just normal male sexuality. It has something in common with rape only in that they want to have sex with you.
I told you I read it when it was new. I wanted answers to the particular questions I asked.
As I said, it’s a list of anecdotes. It doesn’t answer my questions.
tdn, that’s actually quite a constructive point, now that I think about it. They’re trying to compensate for feeling powerless/unmasculine (for whatever reason) by aggressively asserting power/masculinity over women.
Diana, I don’t choose to feel threatened by verbal harassment, although I do often feel irritated. I still think it is sexist and harmful, and we as a society should work to figure out ow to stop it.
To be clear, I think that guys can threaten women by shouting stuff at them, and there have been times when catcalling has been kind of oogy. And if you live in a place where that happens, it totally does suck. But just a simple whistle or a “You look FINE” seems pretty innocuous to me. When I get one it kind of makes my day a little because it usually happens when I look nice.
Side note–the one time I had something yelled by a woman (I was walking by and a woman in a parked car yelled that she liked my dress), I was immediately suspicious at first–like, is this a “bitchy female taking me down” kind of thing? I’m pretty sure it wasn’t…but you never know.
I might have lost the thread, but if you’re talking about whistles and basic catcalls, then no, this amateur psychoanalysis has no relation to reality at all.
I am somewhat shy that’s one of the reasons why I DON’T whistle or catcall.
People who whistle and catcall are not doing it out of insecurity they are doing it because they want your attention.
Yeah, seriously. Too shy to say “Hello,” but not too shy to whistle?
Anyway, I’ve never conducted a study on what motivates people to whistle or scream “Hey girl!” or any of that business. I’m guessing there is a percentage of the people who bother me on the street, down from low-level pestering all the way up to threats and power-stalking, who find me attractive, just as there’d be a percentage of any group who finds me attractive. I still don’t think physical appearance is their motivation. I say this because 1) I’m not that attractive, but I guess that’s subjective and 2) all kinds of women, of varying age groups, races, weights and levels of physical attractiveness get sassed this way. No? I seriously chalk all this up to douchebaggery.
I think it’s possible that people are bringing different experiences with environmental “personalities” (for lack of a better word) types of catcalls and harassment to the discussion, which informs our positions. I used to live in San Francisco, and I got comments once or twice a week along the lines of, “Nice smile!” or “I love your eyes.” I don’t think those are threatening, and if I had only lived in that environment, I would think some of the women in this thread were overreacting. However, in the city in which I now live I regularly (as in, at least once a day) get guys following me VERY closely, or passing me so as to brush against me, or calling “Nice tits!” or “I wanna fuck you!”
I think it’s important not to assume that everyone in the thread has had the same experience as you.
Yes, absolutely. Saying hello requires you to become vulnerable and possibly face rejection on a very personal level. (As little as that makes sense, a lot of guys think that way.) Whistling and cat calling are pseudo-macho and require that a guy put very little of his ego at risk.
Nice tits and I wanna fuck you are pretty unambiguous. But I don’t see whistling as being in the same category. Whistling is more in the former category of Nice Smile or I Love Your Eyes.
All right, fair enough. Might explain why sometimes they lose their shit when you ignore 'em or tell them to back off.
BULL. FUCKING. SHIT.
I am sick of this cultural myth that the male libido robs its owner of all rational thought once aroused. Women in various Islamic countries are made to wrap themselves in veils, and are told that if they don’t, they’ll awaken the insatiable beast that is the male sex drive. We’re told we can’t have gays in the military because they’d make unwanted advances toward their fellow soldiers, because the thought that a homosexual man would be able to restrain himself from coming on to somebody in a professional setting is apparently as unrealistic as going to the moon on a unicycle. If some men are ruled by their cock, then either they’re mentally ill, or they’ve never been taught to control their sexual appetites. Violence against anyone who whistles or catcalls at a woman on the street isn’t the answer, true–but this “boys will be boys” horseshit is a cultural construct that needs to be disassembled.
Whistles are demeaning
I can’t whistle
Therefore, I am not demeaning.
Seriously though, the crowd I know and run with would do no such thing (as described in this thread of man bashing) If I’d like a woman to know I find her attractive, I tell her “Hey You are attractive lady”
The situation that this thread has turned into, still requires only the women who feel threatened do something. Find a means for you to feel safe (even when physically threatened) and the cat calls and whistling is meaningless.
Is it still degrading? It could be. We could always go back to the wild west. Not many men out there would stand for that sort of nonsense, Maam. Actually, not many ‘real’ men would stand for it here in the south, to this day.
I think there’s a difference between, “Men can’t help raping/assaulting women” and “Men want to have sex with women and so are going to notice them.” And I think that whistling/catcalling calls somewhere in the middle of that spectrum. When you’re talking about guys following women for blocks and yelling things at them–yeah, that’s something that everyone should be able to control. Not boys will be boys.
But when it’s some guy staring at my ass or checking out my breasts, or whistling as I walk by, I just lump that in with “Guys notice pretty girls.”
Exactly. We really don’t have any choice over whether we feel lust. We do have a choice on whether – and how – we act on it.
I think you missed the second half of this sentence:
No, mswas, I believe there IS something wrong with that.
Yeah, it really fits, doesn’t it? A guy asking another guy “You think you’re better than me?” comes from the exact same place. Thinking about it in this light, we can completely reevalute who’s really feeling more threatened in the interaction.
That said, I don’t think that that accounts for 100% of that behavior, just a huge chunk of it. I agree with mswas that many times, it’s a genuinely well-intentioned compliment with no agenda whatsoever. My father can wolf whistle at women in a way that makes everyone around him – including the woman – feel great. He just knows how to pull it off in the right way.
Objectification is part of normal HUMAN sexuality. Women objectify men as well. It doesn’t really have much to do with the subject at hand.
Yeah. People objectify people when it comes to sex. No, you don’t get to treat the person like an object, but I don’t see it as a terrible thing to notice something–a hot ass on a man, a nice pair of breasts on a woman, and reduce the person to that part in your mind. If you go around grabbing people, then you’ve got a problem, but as long as it’s confined to noticing, what’s the problem?