I’d agree that in general, most men have a lot of growing up to do. Cat calls are not exactly mature. But neither is apologizing for being a man. It’s not that we have to lose testosterone, it’s that we have to channel it in a mature and responsible way.
As well as completely off-topic.
Fair point! I’m taking my pass back; we are as bad as each other.
This is how I see it, most of the time. The best evidence for it is being a woman or girl (and yes, IME they like to target minors most of all – maybe because they’re sure they won’t fight back?) as well as an ethnic minority. If they honestly think telling someone to ‘suck their egg roll’ or that they ‘want to lick your chocolate cunt’ is going to get them laid, well, maybe they could use some mace to clear up their brain.
Occasionally I’ll get something that actually seems like a misguided compliment and I won’t feel like shit. Like most women I’ve asked, I consider most wold whistles, when not accompanied by a dude licking his lips or stroking himself, are downright chivalrous compared to the usual state of catcalls. (Unless I’m in a particularly bad mood, got some horrible news, trying to have a conversation – and then I am still annoyed that apparently this stranger’s time takes priority over mine).
Again, I think the women in the OP were drunk idiots and don’t condone what they did, but I wouldn’t extend that to all recipients of street harassment. As someone mentioned, women are being forced to be on guard and gauge the situation, and they’re taught to not be confrontational and to be polite and nice as long as possible lest they seem like a rude bitch or overreacting hysterically. It’s stressful and unnecessary and I don’t think it’s fair that it’s the standard operating procedure for girls and women. So if I found out that someone I know was being propositioned and followed – they do like to follow you – then called a bitch or a cunt when she turned the asshole down, I wouldn’t be anything but elated if she’d decided to smack him or mace him. Ideally with witnesses around, of course. I agree it’s not safe to do so alone in an alley or whatever lest he turn physically violent. Which, again, is another way to keep these women in their place – you’d better not talk back, or I’ll get nasty on you. You’d better not fight back, I’m bigger and I might beat you up or rape you. And if I don’t, you could be arrested for assault, anyway.
You must be really fun at parties.
I’ve moved this thread to the Pit from MPSIMS.
Is that really on the same level as a wolf whistle? I am assuming that by wolf whistle they men the ascending major note followed by the descending minor note. wUT WOOoooo. The sort of all purpose, ‘Damn baby you’re hot.’, whistle. That’s ‘tss tss’ thing that hispanics do in New York is pretty creepy I admit.
Well at least you see a difference.
Men are taught the same things. The only difference is that men often disregard such teaching.
Yeah, that does suck, and depending on what’s done, I would agree that he had it coming.
Though I don’t think someone has to strike you first for you to charge them with assault. In New Mexico at least assault is a threat of any kind, it doesn’t have to be accompanied by battery.
In my martial arts self-defense classes, I was taught that whoever throws the first punch generally wins the fight. So any form of physical aggression should be considered a threat. If a man is following you like you are talking about and you do get physical just pick some physical assault and say he did it it. Even that shoulder thrust that people do when they want you to think they are going to throw a punch could be considered a swing. If you think you are in physical danger, by all means use up your bottle of pepper spray.
I can imagine that it’s like living in a world where the sidewalks are lined with survey takers, panhandlers, and LaRouchies. Who won’t take no for an answer. Add in a creepy sexual overtone and I can see how it would not only be annoying, but downright scary as well. Kudos to ladies for living in that world at all.
It’s amazing to me that when I approach a woman just right, usually does she not mind, but she finds it refreshing and fun. I made three new friends just this week that way. It’s surprising how far being open without wanting anything, and being cool with whatever outcome happens, can get you.
Yeah, but what happens when Internet Courage + Sloth occurs. I’ll tell you what happens! We’re royally buggered!
P.S. MeanOldLady, I don’t think your lift goes all the way to the top.
Where do you spend your time such that you’re subjected to being followed around and screamed at by strangers all day- on a stripper pole, or something?
The internets name-calling bothers me significantly less than when it’s from people following me for blocks harassing me because I ignored them or flipped them the bird.
Whistling and catcalling is an asshole thing to do, period. Of course it’s also wrong to physically attack people for it, and if you do so and get the wrong guy, you’ve proven yourself to be a moron. And in this case bad drunk.
Not for the first time, I think you’ve missed the point here.
I am pretty sure the word was deliberately equated with “loony bitches” by people who are opposed to feminism.
This, on the other hand, is pretty freaking stupid. Women generally get their rights if and when they stand up en masse and do something about it, which doesn’t do them a damn bit of good in countries where feminists are a tiny minority and all women are oppressed by an armed and religious majority, for example - like, say, in most of the Middle East and much of Asia. And a few centuries earlier, pretty much everyplace else.
That you wouldn’t know much about feminism is kind of a given, but this is jaw droppingly clueless. Am I misunderstanding your take here? You think men have always happily given women equal rights as soon as women realize they need to ask for them? And that if not, it’s the women’s fault?
None of that really has much bearing on what happened in Britian in this instance, but shit. Do you have an advanced degree from the college of being wrong all the time?
Actually I remember walking down the street one weekend night and some guys calling out something to me and I stopped and started talking to them and went with them to some bar where they bought me a couple of drinks. Not the smartest thing in the world, but I suppose there’s always that one in a million.
I’m not sure if that counts as a catcall, though. There was also another time when some guy stopped me (outside a bar) and I ended up drinking with him and his friend. Sometimes I get the feeling that in actions, I’m the kind of woman that other feminists really despise…
Really? Because in my experience it’s usually the person who throws the last one.
I have to wonder why MeanOldLady is so worked up over this. With most women I know, it’s a minor nuisance that happens fairly infrequently. They don’t get worked up into a rage screaming “I KEEL YOU!!” I wonder if she is fat and never actually gets catcalled or wolf whistled. Well, maybe by Black dudes.
Several places, currently Minneapolis, MN. No stripper poles as of yet. But in this economy, people are going to great lengths to make ends meet. Updates forthcoming.
Err, MrSmith, the reason it irritates the shit out of me is because it happens all the time. I don’t understand why people don’t find it acceptable that a female over the age of 14 is allowed to walk outside unbothered. I really wish these people would shut their traps and just let me go to work in peace. And it has nothing to do with me. No woman should have to be harassed this way when she’s attempting to buy groceries. Enough already. Learn how to approach women like an adult, or shut the fuck up. Do not SCREAM at people, or follow them for blocks. It’s scary and it’s wrong.
But what if he opened a door for you? Then would it be back to the fire crotch treatment?
Just trying to get a sense where the overreaction trigger gets pulled.
–Guy says hi: OK
–Guy wolf whistles: beat him senseless
–Guy opens door: ??
People open the door for me all the time. I smile and say, “Thank you.” I would say it’s time to beat the man with sticks once he yells “Hey girl!” at you more than twice. If he starts name-calling begins, it’s acceptable to mace and/or beat him, and if he starts following you, a match and some kerosene to the knickers would be suitable.
I’m glad this got moved to the Pit so I can tell you to shut the fuck up you ignorant dick. If you’re under the impression that this sort of behavior is confined to strip clubs you are delusional.
ETA I find it interesting, upon re-reading the thread, how many chestnuts are being thrown out, from ‘Don’t get so worked up’ to ‘You should be flattered’ to ‘You’re probably too ugly to get harassed, anyway.’ Lord.
I’m female, and I’ve never been followed with someone yelling things at me. I mean, I sometimes notice guys checking me out and on occasion saying stuff, but I honestly don’t get it when women talk about how much they hate catcalling and that kind of behavior. It’s always felt relatively innocuous to me.
It’s kinda like the guy who has a horrible day at work, getting yelled at by bosses and anyone else in a position to make his life difficult, then he comes home and first thing his wife says is, “we need money for X, Y, and Z” which he hasn’t got and takes as her hassling him about that, so he beats her senseless.
Equally justifiable, IMHO. Of course, MHO is that neither is justified at all.