Yeah, I guess people shouldn’t sell themselves short, if they work just a little harder that’ll be the mainstream view. Though it is close to it. It’s becoming that women are just women with the same rights and privileges as men, and feminists are looney bitches. One of those ideologies that is only relevant as long as they are fighting actual oppression.
Look if more Mothers in Afghanistan were castrating husbands who stoned their daughters to death for fornication it wouldn’t happen. Women there are complicit. Yes it requires people to do it en masse, but that’s true of anything. People want to have power over you and if you let them they will.
Nope, I think that men are powerless to stop women from claiming their rights if they do it en masse. Men need women and they need women to like them even. In the home, even in Muslim countries men are cuckolded by their wives just as anywhere else. Men who really love their wives will let them have the power if that’s what they truly want. In so many cases you can see women trying to resist suffrage movements. As long as you have a large percentage of women in on the subjugation then it’s going to occur.
LOL, nope, not at all. I consistently am told I am wrong by people who are convinced the prevailing opinion that they happen to hold in common is the correct one. Not unlike if I went to Kabul and said all women should wear a veil, the men and probably a lot of the women would agree, and if I suggested otherwise they would think that I was incredibly wrong.
I guess I just have a lot more respect for women than you do. Being that I am giving them credit for being more powerful than you are.
The idea was that the person who CONNECTS the first one is more likely to be the person who throws the last one.
A lot people hear seem to think, “Hey, what are you vaginas so upset about?” Uhh, how about being bothered, harassed, sometimes threatened everyday because I had the audacity to sprout tits? And then we got the, “Oh, you must be a stripper.” No, if you think only adult entertainers get treated this way, you must have your head up your ass, or live in the town where the local shop owner is also the mayor.
Here’s the problem: there is no middle ground or other recourse. Women are pretty much stuck with attempting to ignore the harassment or jumping the guy and beating the shit out of him. The former isn’t fair, and the latter is a massive overreaction.
I used to work construction and was on several crews with catcaller guys. Every one of them hollered compliments at women and didn’t cross the line into sexual harassment. That was on the job. I don’t know what they did off the job. Most of the women they hollered at would ignore them. Occasionally one would give them the finger, which always drew laughter from the rest of the crew. Some girls would blow kisses or wave flirtatiously. Nobody ever got hurt and I don’t think we scarred anyone’s psyche.
More than once a car full of young women has howled at me as they pass me on my bicycle. I consider it a compliment that in my 40’s I’ve still got it.
Cute. Douchnozzle, it happens. A lot. Walking down the street in broad fucking daylight. And it’s fucking tiresome. Yes, yes, assault is wrong, and especially so since they got the wrong guy, but I can see where they’re coming from. This was probably just the last fucking straw.
No one in this thread supported the fact that she guessed the wrong guy. That’s just silly. And look, I suppose I don’t condone the beating, but I understand it.
I was trying to figure out why reports of sexual street harassment got me so upset, since I’m a man, and have never been catcalled or anything. Then I realized that it’s really the same as bullying. The perpetrator usually has such power (size, numbers, a car) over the victim, that the victim is not expected to talk back. The only thing she can do is keep walking and frothing, until one day she snaps.
Not every nerd is bullied either. FYI, there are many women in NYC who this happens to all the time.
The term ‘catcalling’ covers a tremendously wide range of behavior, from an innocuous wolf whistle to crazies who follow women down the street yelling at them for having the temerity to ignore their first round of crude words.
A term that covers such a wide range of behavior is inherently vulnerable to:
Fucking idiots who elide the ends of the spectrum of conduct covered by the term ‘catcalling,’ and accordingly want to see the shit beat out of the guy doing the wolf whistle because it , in their minds, should be regarded as just as bad as the downright threatening and harassing behavior at the other end of the spectrum.
It’s kinda like the run-up to the Iraq war, where Saddam was generally believed to have “weapons of mass destruction.” Some WMDs are nuclear warheads, and some are ancient artillery shells containing mustard gas. Because some WMDs are nuclear warheads, we had to take out Saddam because he had WMDs, even if they were ancient artillery shells with mustard gas.
OK, MeanOldLady, I’m starting to see where you’re coming from. If that’s indeed your experience, I can’t blame you a bit for getting really annoyed with it. I take back anything bad I said to you earlier. The behavior you describe is indeed reprehensible.
So why do you get this more than other women? Could be any number of reasons, but I’d bet it’s something specific about your look or the way you carry yourself. Maybe you project a particular type of sexual energy or something. That’s not to say that you’re to blame, of course. There’s probably just some subtle little thing that you’re not aware of.
Hey MeanOldLady I get you. I don’t see catcalling behavior nearly as often as you experience it, and maybe that’s the case for the guys expressing skepticism here.
When a man doesn’t do it himself, and lives in the genteel suburbs, his world doesn’t include the stuff you get every day.
In any case, it sucks. You shouldn’t have to deal with it. Whistling and making crude remarks to strangers shouldn’t happen. It is harassment, and I wish the world were more perfect so the assholes who do it got punished for it.
Not beat to death, mind you, but perhaps ticketed.
Hm, well, yes to the tits, not so much with the hips…
Well, I’ve definitely gotten comments (it happened way more when I was living in Harlem, and that was kind of creepy) but now when it happens, it’s usually just a comment or look, and that’s that. I’ve also had guys try to pick me up sometimes but I live down a long stretch of bars where a lot of people hang out late at night. I wouldn’t classify that as catcalling so much, though. I get the feeling that MeanOldLady would respond to, “Hey, where are you going?” or “Don’t I know you from somewhere?” with, “Yes, from HELL” with a swift kick to the balls, whereas I’ll be nice to the guy for as long as it takes to get me a free drink…
ETA: The only remotely creepy thing that’s happened to me was when I was going back into my apartment and some grungy looking vaguely seedy guy asked if he could take my picture because he thought I was beautiful. I kind of hate myself for admitting that on some level I was a little flattered that even the morning after, I looked okay enough for a hobo-compliment. (It was a really awesome hair day…)
If you say so. The way I hear the language used day to day, women think feminist means “loony bitch” because people have been telling them that for a couple of decades. I admit feminism is one of those words that seems to mean whatever the speaker wants it to mean at this point.
That’s very often true, but it’s also an oversimplification, and you topped it off by blaming the victim. There are people standing up for women’s rights in Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Somalia and other places. That they haven’t been successful in eliminating some terrible practices by a patriarchal culture is not their fault and does not mean they are “responsible” for their own oppression. What happens is that a practice is brought into existence and in these cases, women are brought up with it, accept that it’s the natural order of things, and become responsible for enforcing it.
Maybe so. But they’re capable of delaying and stonewalling for a long fucking time. For example the Seneca Falls Convention was in 1848, Wyoming gave women the vote in 1869 (and became a state in 1890), and the 19th Amendment was passed in 1920. And that’s in a country where the law doesn’t allow you to ditch or stone your woman to death for mouthing off or cheating.
And what about the men who love their wives but just think women aren’t as intelligent and aren’t capable of making their own decisions? I’m sorry, but there are plenty of people like that HERE, let alone in Afghanistan, so I think you’re taking too rosy a viewpoint about this.
True, and the women who are involved are enforcing their own position in society, I agree.
You keep telling yourself that. Meanwhile I’ll just go on oppressing women by not blaming them when they get oppressed.
If I get a wolf whistle, I ignore it and walk on feeling good about it.
If I get a wolf whistle followed by a nasty comment, I still ignore it and walk on thinking to myself, “Eat your heart out you bastard, you ain’t getting any.”
This definitely does go on in New York City. I saw some of it happening Wednesday night, and a good friend says she gets it all the time. (I’ve seen that happen to her once in person.) She made the observation that guys who do this tend to harrass women from outside their own racial or ethnic group, although I am sure that’s not universally true.
Being that I am giving them credit for being more powerful than you are. 