I guess the worst for me was having my ass slapped.
That’s typical. No big deal, right?
Except that I was RIDING A BICYCLE IN HEAVY TRAFFIC AT THE TIME.
That was more shocking than scary. The scariest one didn’t involve actual groping. The scariest was some guy who followed me home from the train station on a cold winter’s night, insisting that I go have a coffee with him after I said no thank you over and over.
So I get to my gate, which was in a little indentation in the fence, sort of a cage on three sides. The guy was still behind me, wanting to know why I don’t want to go with him. I’m trying to be polite, and I wrestle my key into the lock…
…and the lock was frozen.
So I’m trying to twist and turn the lock loose, trapped on three sides with this guy hanging over me, and I’m saying things like, “No, I really can’t…I have things to do…no, sorry, I can’t…”
The lock finally gave, and I pushed inside, and slammed the gate shut behind me.
And I spent the rest of the night thinking, “Great. He knows where I live.”
My intention in starting this thread was to show what it’s like for women and girls to be on the receiving end (as it were) of what some call typical, ordinary, expected male behavior. In the Trump thread, the argument was made, “If she didn’t object, then there was consent.”
I’m sure men get sexually groped and grabbed, too, but the theme of THIS thread is the SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT that some men feel to touch, handle, and even invade women’s and little girls’ bodies, including strangers’ bodies, let alone those of dependent family members, students, employees.
And I started it in the Pit (I guess no mod has seen my request to move it to IMHO) so that if some guy did venture in here and make inappropriate comments, any reader would be free to object loudly, thus ensuring that no one would assume consent to tacky, stupid, juvenile, or even cruel remarks.
The link in the OP is to an article in the Washington Post. No video.
I feel like there is a lot of gaslighting going on regarding a woman being groped, that it’s no big deal. I think a lot of guys who cop a feel count on the woman not reacting negatively and that no response is consent. There is no one size fits all reaction to this situation. I have been groped and physically abused before and it makes for a horrible mix of shock, fear and anger. I have become so protective of my personal space, that if you invade it, all bets are off and something awful is going to happen. Feel free to call it an overreaction, I don’t give a shit.
Just my POV, this thread might be more relevant if we omit most cases of child molestation. I really think fondling an underage girl (or even barely of-age ones) is a different category of intent and assault than groping a nominally adult woman. Trump means the latter; my interest in further posts is where adult women have been so assaulted.
Dude, quit while you are ahead. You got the person to agree with you. Don’t go saying bigoted shit.
Also, just because someone tells you they didn’t appreciate something doesn’t require flipping the fuck out. They didn’t like your joke. And they didn’t like your defense of “It’s the pit.” They didn’t actually even call you an asshole.
You are the one who came up with the idea that they were defending CairoCarol.
No crotch, but I did have a guy twist my breasts at work.
I was in high school, working as a cashier in a grocery store. This was back in the early 80s, so very big on the “boys will be boys” thing (the male manager even said working with an all women crew was like herding cats, har har har) and I didn’t really think much of it.
Second, also at work, but in a TV station in Charleston. It was a small indie, the type of place where you knew who was at work by the cars in the parking lot. I was bending over getting some more paper for the copier and the engineer comes up behind me and whacks me on the ass. Hard.
I screeched, and he stared waving his hands, “Ooooh, ooooh, sexual harassment!” and I yelled, “No, asshole, that hurt!”
The station manager was a friend, and IIRC, the engineer left not soon after.
It’s funny, I never really gave these incidents a second thought until that tweet came out. I certainly don’t think of myself as a victim. It’s almost like getting grabbed or poked was par for the course. It happens and you move on. Granted, I was never raped or assaulted, but thinking back, yes, I received unwanted touches because I was female.
I was 20 and standing around at a club in Windsor, Ontario w/ my gal pals when a stranger behind me reached between my legs and grabbed a handful of cloth and flesh. It was painful, I was shocked and jerked away. My friend Michelle saw it all go down from standing next to me, turned and kneed the guy then pulled me over to the bouncers. We told them what happened and they told us to leave right now while they handled the guy and his friends, who were gathering nearby. We beat feet and hauled ass back to Detroit.
A babysitter’s boyfriend and neighbor boys had done similar things to me earlier in my life but this was notable for being the only time anyone stepped in. The times I fought back I was beaten up.
Agree. Lots of times, especially with young women, they are so shocked that it just happened that they can’t think of anything to say in the moment. Especially when it happens in public, or with witnesses. I suspect that assholes like Trump assume that means “she likes it”.
When I was in my late teens, my mom and I stayed the night with my aunt. I had to sleep on the couch, which I didn’t mind. Until aunt’s male room mate (not a boyfriend, more like a boarder) came home drunk. For unknown reasons he saw a young girl sleeping on the couch and decided to crawl sneakily up on the floor and try to slide his hand into my crotch. Fortunately I had both underwear and shorts on. The first and only thing I could think of to say was “what do you think you’re doing”? He pulled is hand out but then tried to talk me into having sex with him, or at least a blow job, and leaned over the couch putting his tighty-whitey bulge in my face. When I shoved him away at that point, he left. I never did tell my aunt about that, although I probably should have.
I was at the super market with my SO and thought we were alone in the isle and I slid my hand under her butt just a bit. I wasn’t her but someone else. The poor lady was in shock and ready to scream when my girlfriend came around the corner. At first she thought I did it on purpose but they had very similar shapes and hair color and style. All was forgiven but I know the lady still suspected I did it on purpose.
On the NYC subway. And, I’m a daily subway rider, and I’m pretty used to absorbing the unintentional bumps and touches that come with a rush hour commute. Your person WILL be touched inadvertently. So there have been times when I’ve withheld judgment because a touch (on the butt) from behind is often from an elderly person accidentally bumping you with a bag, or a baby stroller that is catching on your skirt, for example.
But one particular day it was a dude standing behind me on a crowded train, in the summer, on a Yankees day so it was packed with people going to a game (which usually means it’s extra crowded and loud). And sure enough, this guy was reaching between my legs on purpose. It was definitely not my butt he was aiming for. First time, I figured it could be an accident (see above) and then second time I turned around to catch him in the act, and I said something like “GEEZ, DO YOU MIND?” and he got flustery, like “what are you talking about? I’m not doing anything.” It was so crowded there was no room for me to move farther away from him, but he turned away from me at least after I confronted him.
I have had people ask me how I knew for sure it was intentional groping and not an accidental bump. I am sure.
You have to wonder what reaction these men think they will get. Apparently there are quite a number of men who really think a random grope will initiate a consensual sexual encounter. Boggles the mind… (or they just don’t care, and get some pleasure out of just being offensive.)
Lest any men the the wrong idea: I’m NOT saying that all men or even most men do this. I’m saying EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE. The Trumpians would have you believe that groping/grabbing a female’s private parts is normal, expected male behavior. It is not. Decent men do not do this.
I’m wondering if any men reading this are surprised that so many women have come forward with these stories in such a short time. Maybe guys don’t know 1) how often this happens, and 2) that women don’t like it and although individual instances do surprise and shock you, overall, you’re not surprised THAT it happens (maybe just that it happened to you today).
I thought of another thing that happened to a colleague of mine at work about 30 years ago. She was early 40s, secretary to the boss (back when that position was called “secretary”). The PR director cornered her in her office grabbed the front of her blouse, pulled it away from her body, and peered down her neckline. She was shocked and stunned and pushed him away.
When she told the boss, all he said was, “Were you covered?” :smack:
If I can toss this in. Thoughts of doing things like this go thru the minds of frankly… all men. At least at one time in their lives. Pretty sick I know. But, if we have any brains or morals we quickly suppress such disgusting thoughts especially when we think of the consequences or develop a conscience or morals. Yes I will admit I’ve had thoughts of doing some bad things. Also many times when around groups of men when their has been some drinking the conversation can go downhill pretty fast however I never laugh at or encourage such talk and leave immediately.
Btw, this doesnt excuse it but I have heard women also making some bad comments about men when they are in a group and have a few drinks. Ex. Cougar women.
Thing is to stop it we need to 1. enforce rules and laws against it (ex. get arrested, fired, or beat up for it) 2. have a system so women are trained in what is right and wrong and have a way to protect themselves or report things and 3. make it clear in men’s and boy’s minds that you just do NOT do that. It’s wrong - period. If you have a thought, repress it and do NOT act on it. However if rule #3 doesnt get followed then we need rules #1 and #2 to come in and protect the innocent.
I’m sorry I can’t be in the minority of men who have never thought of doing anything non-consensual to a woman. The thought doesn’t appeal to me. And I am not above having some twisted thoughts.
When I was deployed to a base which may or may not be on a communist Caribbean Island there was a unit that was due to rotate out within the next day or two. Some stupid grunt was at the bar I happened to be at and it was closing time. He was totally blitzed out of his mind. I didn’t see it until the commotion started but he walked up to some random woman at the bar and grabbed her crotch and wouldn’t let go. It took several people to drag him away then the MPs swept him up. Needless to say his unit left without him and he got to stay behind for the Court Martial. The topic of conversation was never “Boys will be boys” it was always “Who the hell does that?” And I was in and surrounded by men in a male only career field. Plenty of “locker room” talk. The only joking was about what a dumbass that guy was. There was no “I wish I could do that” or any other condoning of his actions.
