Women Vs Women (no, not in bikinis)

I remember disliking women and girls when I was a teenager, but I haven’t felt that way in years. Maybe moving out of the suburbs had something to do with it (or maybe I just discovered guys weren’t that great either). Anyway, I think there are at least as many annoying men as annoying women, but the women are harder to get rid of. I don’t have a hard time blowing off an obnoxious frat boy or an arrogant braggart (the two most common types of male pain-in-the-asses) but it’s a lot harder for me to justify being rude to a woman just because she’s ditzy or overly nervous. I feel like I just have to smile and tune her out.

I get along better with women as friends, as long as they’re intelligent and like beer. Men make decent drinking buddies, but I’ve only ever had two guy friends with whom I felt comfortable talking about serious stuff, and one of them is gay. It’s easier to be friends with someone where there’s no sexual tension, in my experience …

I cannot believe the sexist bullshit I’m readin on this thread. You all might as well be talking about blacks and asians.

Last time I looked, when it came to assholes and angels, both genders were well represented.

I have had the good fortune to have a life filled with INDIVIDUALS. Some of them have penises, and some of them have vaginas. Interestingly enough, they were all unique in spite of that! Wow.


Stoidela

Boycott shampoo! Demand REAL poo!

Stoidela - ::applause:: Bravo!

I also can’t believe some people are ready to trash the entire female gender because of a few people. Admittedly, I get along better with guys, mainly becuase I’m a sports and computer geek. However, I’ve had some great women friends, some great guy friends, and I’ve hated people from both groups as well. Some of you have complained about women thinking that they needed to be taken care of. I agree with this, but I’ve also seen this attitude a lot in men.

I guess I’m just reluctant to trash a whole group based on my opinions of a few people. I tend to hate the person more than whatever group they’re associated with. JMO.

“I hate people. Do you hate people?”

“No. But I feel a lot better when they’re not around”

-from the movie “Barfly”

Let me clarify something, my opinions are my own and they do not reflect the norm. This, I have been aware of for years.

Ramble alert, and I apologize.

I haven’t always had this distain for women because being a woman myself, I like to think of us as all powerful and omnipotent. Then I quit my job and had a baby to become a full time domestic tyrant. I lost any connection with intelligent women who posessed an ounce of common sense and open mindedness. I have been to playgrounds, library programs and the whatnot ( not easy for me because Its a haul to go anywhere from where I live) to find other moms to talk to. What I have discovered after 15 months of research is that there are a barrell full of mega-ignornant women out there who believe every UL, every old wives tale and the like that comes down the pipe. For me to calmly dispell these myths would take up all their time and frankly, they look like they want to beleive in the waking up in a tub of ice missing a kidney crap. That and they bitch, bitch bitch about their husbands or talk endlessly about their labors and the baby is 4 years old. C’mon, ladies it’s time to move pass that episode in your life.

All these women do, that I can see, is shop at the mall or drag their kids to gymboree (which for our area is a 45 minute drive one -friggin’-way. Is it just me or driving that far to pay to play with your child for an hour and have them mingle and touch germ infested toys and kids just to haul their butts back home 45 minutes (after a stop at the mall, naturally.) doesn’t make any sense. Either they have lots of money to spend it so frivolously or they are so desperately lonely and insecure that they try to fill the void in their lives and self-esteem by constantly buying crap they really don’t need.

They defer to their husbands for every decision as if he is all superior in every subject Now, I beleive in discussing major decisions with your spouse, afterall constantly doing something without at least asking is just undermining the trust, but some are just better off him not getting involved in and finding out after the fact. This is always the case when you decide to cut your hair.

An example was I was out garage saling one day and I listened to these 40ish women complain about their husbands. One lady said, " I asked him if I could paint the family room and he said no."

I looked over and said, nicely, (something to the effect.) " You phrased that wrong. Never give someone ( male or female) an simple yes or no chance to answer when what your really want is their input. You have to show them their reasons of why this or that must be done this (your way) and be prepared to make a compromise to your plans. You have to phrase it like " This room has been this way since we moved in X years ago, the carpet is stained and the couch was from your Aunt Stella and she’s been dead 15 years. I think I’ll start with the walls. I can’t decide what color would look better: Buttercup or Day lillyl. What do you think, dear?" As this will open up a line of communication. And if he completely vetoes it, wait until hunting season (they had a ton of camping/hunting stuff in the rafters of the garage) and redo the room yourself the way you want it."

The woman looked at me like I was covered in slime and said, " I could never do that, he would get so mad."

“So you could live in a room that you haven’t liked for years because his word is final.” (It wasn’t phrased so direct, but you get the point.)

“Well, yes. he does bring in all the money and he works so hard to support us.” Her exact words.

“What you have just told me is because you are a homemaker and do not earn money for a living, is that you are not entitled to a valid opinion. This is despite the fact that you take care of every detail inside the house, raised kids who are respected and keep a beautiful garden. etc and because you worked so hard to keep the expenses down you were able to send a kid to Michigan. (There was a bumper sticker on their car.)… I’ll be honest with you, I thought your cramped and narrow minded mentality died when my 94 year old grandmother passed on.” (The first and last line are verbatim, the rest is pretty close.)

ARGGGGGHHHHHHHH.

It is so frustrating for me. Most of these women do not read (anything, not even the newspaper), they think the Internet is just a Porno place and have innudated themselves with Teletubbies to not realize there is out there (somewhere) intelligent programming on TV for adults during the day. They are grossly misinformed, tend to be somewhat religous, undereducated ( not with a degree, per se, for I never finished college, but they don’t fucking think for themselves.) They have retreated for far into there insular world that a nuclear blast could not extricate them from their little caves. Funny thing is is that what does get them back into the light is usually a divorce or death. (this happened with my Mom.) Having a conversation out there with these women is about as productive as banging my head against a rusty spike.

What I shall continue to look for is someone capable of intelligent repartee. Not necessarily deep or meaningful conversation ( I’m more of the bantering kind of person.), but full of spark and verve. I want to find someone with a light on behind their eyes. Right now, if it was not for this message board (and all those porno sights I can’t live with out :slight_smile: ) I know I would have cracked under the pressure and started liking the ladies on QVC and calling in to their show.

End Rant and please drive carefully.

One of the myriad reasons I opted not to have children.

One of my very closest friends DID choose to have kids, and she is an excellent mother who, like you it seems, has continued to be a well-rounded human being in spite of it.

The people she finds herself surrounded by because of the circumstnaces of her life, however, are like something out of my worst nightmare. No thank you!


Stoidela

Thesaurus: An ancient reptile with an excellent vocabulary

No, Shirley, it hasn’t (I wish!). My mother feels this way. If you ask her point-blank about raising kids, she says that staying home with your kids is the most important thing you can do. But she sneers at women who actually do this. She’s said some really nasty things about one of my cousins (his wife stays home with the kids), mostly to the effect that staying home with them is a waste of time, and that my cousin-in-law isn’t contributing anything to the family.

Frankly, her attitude scares me. I’d like to be able to stay home with the kids (when we have them), at least when they’re little, if we can afford it. This should be our decision alone, but I just know that she’s going to butt in there. It’s not a good feeling, to know that your own mother thinks you’re screwing up your whole life (although she’s thought this for a while now, and I’m learning to live with it).

Yeah, I know there’s a risk that I’ll lose earning power if I take time off (or even if I take a “mommy track” job), but I think that the rewards are worth it.

Sorry, this got a little off the subject. I guess what I’m trying to say here is, this is a choice my husband and I need to make, and we would (I hope) both value each other’s contributions to the family.

That’s the end of my rant :slight_smile:


The Cat In The Hat

It sounds like you are in a Catch 22 with your mother. If you stay home with the future tykes, you are damned. If you go to work and put them in daycare, she’ll probably turn her nose up at that to. She isn’t happy with her life and she sounds like she may be trying to live hers through you. Either way, you are screwed.

My advise for yours to flush down the mental toilet if you so desire: Do what your heart says and if your mother or whomever is constantly bringing you down, then to either slow extricate yourself from their circle, which is hard when a parent is involved or tell them point blank that you would appreciate POSITIVE support and that negative talk will force you into therapy and really dis her at $150 an hour. :slight_smile:

Avoid people who bring down your self confidence.

I have freinds of both genders, and like them all. My best friends have been men, but I really can’t say why. Just connect better with them, I guess.

My mom is a very independant woman, and encouraged me to be the same way. My dad encouraged me this way as well, bless him. While I never graduated from college, I have managed to make a decent living for myself. I’m married, with a 2 year old & one on the way. I have found that motherhood is the most satisfying job I’ve had. But here’s where that old independent streak kicks in…

I support my family, my husband included. He is a musician, and works weekend nights. During the day, he is a stay-at-home dad. Got alot of raised eyebrows in my family when we first started having kids, because even though I come from a line of very strong women, that old “men must have day jobs” mentality wasn’t quite gone. Didn’t take long for them to realize just how good our arrangement is. One parent working and bringing home the money, the other at home, taking care of the kids. Now my family & friends think we are just terminally hip.

Everybody else is dealing with the real issues in this thread so well, I just want to comment on a little tangent–“women’s magazines” like Cosmopolitan, etc. The existence of Cosmo used to drive me up the wall, too. The inane non-topics, the quizzes, the endless fashion updates, the pages and pages of sex tips. [Yes, I’ve read the thing upon occasion.] Then I read an article in the newspaper about the glam mags, and an editor mentioned that his stuff was read mostly by women with kids who use it as a sort of escapist fantasy–like relaxing in a tub with Ben & Jerry’s, I think he said [some issues here no doubt, but I see his point.] Said the cardinal sin in glam magazines was to mention children, that the women who read this stuff are not necessarily believing each word of it, but merely enjoying the difference from their daily grind that the magazine illustrates. I buy it–the idea, not the mag. Compare it to a cheesy romance novel, a comic book, “Terminator 2”; escapist entertainment, not a realistic guide to living. Who would have the time to do all the daily/weekly/monthly beauty routines they list, anyway? If you think about it, the emphasis on Me Me Me Beauty Beauty Beauty Sex Sex Sex is in its own way a feminist reaction to the previous homogeneous women’s fare of homemaking magazines with recipes and kids’ rainy day projects. Selfishness, shallowness and obsession with sex is at least an alternative to what some may consider a confining role of selfless, nurturing mother. [Not my opinion as such, but an idea.]

I still hate the things, especially the cover cleavage photos and the general article theme of “How to Get and Keep A Man”–but I don’t take them seriously because I don’t know anyone of any intelligence who does, male or female.

I don’t personally believe this, but I thought you might be interested in Rebecca West, a noted feminist who said that the difference between men and women is that women are idiots and men are lunatics.

Matt, I love it–but I always thought it was the other way around!

Kudos to Falcon and Mazey who both seem to have a balanced perspective.

While I’ve had some wonderful female friends, I’ve generally found men to be better friends than women. For the most part I, too, am a woman who doesn’t like women very well. To make matters worse, the early feminists made me angry by their tactics. I thought they made women look foolish by quibbling over semantics. Example: “Chairman” describes the person who presides over the committee. “Chairperson” is awkward and unnecessary. Who gives a rat’s ass what you’re called if you have the position of power! The whole “person” thing still makes me crazy! I was one of the few young anti-feminist feminists in the 60’s.

I was a fairly pretty teenager who had a strange social life. Because I was a science nerd, I didn’t relate well to most other teenage girls and the boys wanted “girly” girls. So I dated men instead of boys. My parents were beside themselves.

Guess I’ve been lucky because in my jobs, me female co-workers were often a lot like me. I came up in a male-dominated work environment. I met my first computer in 1961 – it had vacuum tubes! Until quite recently, (by an old broad’s reckoning) there were few women who were involved in high tech. And I’ve always wanted and had a man in my life (just not always the same man).

Two stories from years ago:

  1. Had a neighbor who was an educational consultant and worked from home. She’d sometimes attend the neighborhood daytime get-togethers, but usually found herself acting as the group babysitter because the found the kids to be more interesting company than their mothers were.

  2. Was a full-time homemaker for 2 yrs after my second child was born. When I began looking for work again, my bridge club (all women) was full of good wishes and was cheering me on. Then I began getting serious interviews and job offers. The good wishes and good cheer evaporated and developed into an acid fog. In a similar situation, men might have felt the same emotions but would have handled them better I think.

To the other females on this thread who consider the gender in general to be insipid – you’re probably right, but you’re not going to change them. Just keep on keepin’ on & raise your sons & daughters to know better.

Man, is this thread insulting!

I went to girl schools until university- and you know what? Women are not vapid, catty, shallow, backstabbing bitches everybody thinks they are. Nobody sat around waiting for some guy to rescue them because they believed in themselves and their own abilities, and we able to count on their female friends for support. We are not all Ally McBeal. Learn the difference.

This tread has be completely baffled.

I have quite a few male friends, a few are good for nothing more than a roll in the sack or to kill spiders, but most are very close and dear friends of mine.

However, there is no comparison when it comes to girlfriends. I have many and wouldn’t trade them for the world. I love women (no, I am not gay). I truly pity women who are unable to know the feeling of friendship between females. JFTR - We do not sit around gossiping, backstabbing, giggling, filing our nails, bitching, or any of the other accusations flying through the posts.

I find it rather insulting that there are so many females on this board stereotyping women as catty, backstabbing, nailfiling, airheads. No wonder we have such rotten reputations.

Sheeesh!


>^,^<
KITTEN

Coarse and violent nudity. Occasional language.

Hey now, just because I file my nails doesn’t make me an airhead!!

Seriously, I think it’s a bad idea to say “women are shallow, catty, backstabbing bitches” & summararily dismiss half the human race like that. Having that attitude can cause one to miss out on a lot of great friendships.

That said, some women are annoying. (Some men are annoying, too, but there’s a set of annoying behaviors which I have observed only in women.) The worst thing that I’ve noticed is that a lot of women have these unspoken expectations. They expect you to know what they want you to do, & then when you don’t do it, they get all pissed off. I HATE that.

Well, Stella, that’s obviously your fault for not being a mind-reader. :wink: