How would you like it if something you said on the SDMB was able to cause criminal charges against you?
There is really no such thing as virtual sexual assault, sorry. Anyone who is about to be virtually sexually assaulted can leave the room, unplug the computer, log out, leave the game and never go back, etc.
What’s next, indictments for virtual murder? When my son and I are playing New Super Mario and I pick him up and throw him into a chomping thing (it was a mistake, honest!) can he call up child services?
One of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard.
Listen, if she didn’t want to get sexually harassed she should have known better than to wear that provocative Sanctified Crimson Acolyte Robe outside of the raid.
You can face criminal charges for things posted on the SDMB.
i killed a man. Actually, it was more than one. I also killed a whole slew of cops with pig heads and about a thousand aliens.
There. I feel better now. I’ll wait here for the authorities to come get me.
Seriously, as long as the harassment doesn’t bleed over to the non-game environment, no harassment.
Maybe. Before people decried virtual sexual assult, they were upset about virtual animal abuse and virtual child abuse.
Murder is virtual, words arent. Most of the solutions offered were actually virtual though.
Most MMO’s do have some sort of code covering it anyhow, so where enforcement should take place is generally the main issue rather than it being seriously debated whether its ‘OK’ to do it. I can think of multiple examples of people being ejected from games for it. Eg for WoW:
“i) Transmit or post any content or language which, in the sole and absolute discretion of Blizzard, is deemed to be offensive, including without limitation content or language that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, hateful, sexually explicit, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable, nor may you use a misspelling or an alternative spelling to circumvent the content and language restrictions listed above;”
Games are increasing in gender parity. Over time you’ll probably see more measures to deal with it but they’ll probably be market driven rather than legislatively.
As far as that Australian legislation goes, they’re probably talking about adding it on as another way a person may not contact a person when a restraining order is in place for real world actions, rather than one being taken out for gaming activity alone. Ie he cant ring, text, email so he tries to contact her in game instead, etc. Its about closing off loopholes as the law generally has to be very specific about this kind of thing.
Otara
I think it’s fair to call what she experienced harassment. And I think it would be fair to say that harassment online should be illegal as is harassment by phone or email or letter.
I see this as the equivalent of making obscene phone calls. It’s psychological harassment of a sexual nature without any physical contact.
Except if I call you I am, in a manner of speaking, finding you at your home and harassing you. If you go online it is your choice and you can quite easily avoid the problem (block the person, log out, etc.).
Do those espousing the view that multiplayer video game harassment should be illegal actually have any experience with what goes on, you know, in a multiplayer video game?
Reading through the OP’s link, the behavior she described is commonplace. In fact, when I was a competitive player in a popular MMO I’d do something similar – I’d regularly teabag my fallen opponents (I’d also say some very mean things about their mothers). Should I be tried for sexual harassment? It’s an absolutely ridiculous notion to think so. And if I’m tried for harassment, I shudder to think what will happen to the people who break up e-weddings, steal gold from a guild bank, or camp (continually griefing) another player.
Equating this to sexual harassment by phone or email trivializes what actual harassment is.
This is not to say, that internet harassment doesn’t exist. It definitely does, and sometimes it can arise from a video game. But this? The “harasser” didn’t even know the player’s actual gender. It seems to me he just followed her around and used emotes to make his character bend towards her. I just don’t understand how that could be construed as sexual harassment…
All the links I’ve been able to find about sexual harassment discuss specifically workplace harassment, so I’m not sure what it takes to count as sexual harassment outside the workplace.
But the behavior you describe is in any case paradigmatically harassment, if the people you were doing it to asked you to stop.
Your defense is “it happens all the time”. How could you think that’s a good argument? “It happens all the time” means “it’s permissible”??
Lots of things “happen all the time” that are illegal, and also that are morally wrong. What’s your argument exactly, then?
It would be somewhat ridiculous for anyone to try to start legal proceedings against you for “teabagging” them online despite their repeated protests, simply due to the practical aspects of the problem. But as far as I can tell, they’d be in the right if they did so. Good luck to them getting anywhere with it, and they probably should get a thicker skin. None of that changes the fact that they’d be in the right.
When things go beyond this “teabagging” thing to simulated sexual assault, the relevant moral and legal values become much more stark.
What does “bending” mean, anyway? Just that he followed her around and crouched near her? Or was he crouching on her like he was humping her…?
Can’t speak for him of course but I guess the sense is a “When in Rome” sort of thing. If the locals do something you dislike then don’t go.
Participating in an online game is entirely voluntary. If the online environment has some aspects you do not like then do not participate or find means to avoid the issues you dislike (which is usually possible via a variety of means mentioned earlier). Part of it is also getting a thicker skin. Always some asshat roaming around. Just part of the nature of the venue (see Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory linked to earlier).
To me it is akin to visiting a bar district with many bars and then griping you run into drunk people who annoy you. It may not make the asshole drunk “right” or “ok” but it should hardly be a surprise to you. If you do not like that then do not go to that area.
Avatars in these games have various “e-motes” available to them. Things such as dancing or waving and so on.
As you might guess they do not (for the most part) have a “hump” e-mote so people use stand-ins that mimic the idea closely enough to get the idea across. So, they “bend” over (might even be a “deep bow”) such that their face ends up in another’s crotch on screen.
Okay. Hmm. I don’t know, maybe it’s uber insensitive of me but I have a hard time seeing this as sexual harassment. Harassment, maybe, yeah…but less harassment in the same way as in the workplace or getting threatening phone calls, but more harassment as in this is kind of irritating. I mean, there are some seriously annoying posters from time to time on the SDMB and they attempt to rile people up and it’s all very irritating. Someone putting their virtual head near my avatar’s crotch sounds annoying but I don’t really see why it’s necessarily sexual. If someone was constantly waving at you or jumping on you, it would be annoying but would we see that as sexual?
No, that was not my “defense” of it. If you misunderstood me, I apologize for not being clearer. My defense is that this may very well fall under the dictionary definition of what harassment is, but it is not even in the same realm as real world sexual harassment or abuse and as such shouldn’t be illegal.
It is trivial.
I don’t think you are understanding what a MMO is — it’s is a virtual world. You are not you. You are your avatar in this game world. These game worlds are governed by the rules that their developers made to keep order. If you don’t like it, you can leave. You could also petition a gamemaster for assistance, if you’d like to see this 13 year old who is crouching at your character brought to e-justice. But still, he’s not sexual assaulting you, he’s sexually crouching at your character.
There’s a huge difference. As long as it doesn’t spill over into real life, it shouldn’t be in the jurisdiction of any sort of court of law.
I’d think teabagging would be sexual assault. I’d also probably be guilty of sexually violating night elf remains too. :dubious:
on IMVU there is a kick to the groin action. it is not uncommon to hit “random chat” let the other avatar load, and immediately get a kick to the groin after which the other avatar leaves. aside from the initial WTF?! of it all how can you really consider that assault?
Might be worth considering stalking scenarios rather than ‘everyone trashtalking scenarios’. People seem to keep thinking this is about single statements or generally broadcast statements rather than targetted repeated patterns of behaviour.
Eg the person continually seeks the person out and contacts them. While they can leave the game to escape the person ‘stalking’ them, that argument could be applied to any out of home stalking, they dont have to go to the pub, shops in that area, facebook etc etc. It comes down to whether virtual spaces start to be considered public spaces or not, or that owners of the spaces have some obligation similar to bars or the like. In Australia there is some expectation of allowed behaviour towards customers as well as employees so the bar analogy is probably particularly apt.
There probably will be court cases over this eventually if not for a while yet, eg I can see a couple breaking up and one of them trying to keep attacking the ex via a game because the other options have already been covered. What the outcomes are will vary by country.
One other distinction is probably the ‘you are not you’ argument. In my view that is really no longer the case and most people play as ‘themselves’ rather than as a fictional person. I doubt this would carry much weight in a court of law if it got to that unless the person was extremely careful in their language.
As gamers say, Epic Win.
We do similar things in Warcraft. I myself have every class toon (except paladin), so if someone is a massive jerk, I already have the “hard counter” waiting in the wings if he is of the opposite faction. if he is the same faction, it’s time for the hunter - declare war on the big faction guy in town, misdirect to the moron, and watch him get beat down. Or use the warlock to “fear” every mob he tries to fight, so they “agro” every other mob in the area. Or summon him to the bottom of the ocean and watch him drown. For the very worst, we can write a ticket to a GM. But, it’s more fun to do mean things personally.
But, some people are bound and determined to be upset or offended by anything and everything. I don’t worry or care about them. I have better things to do.