A very dear friend of mine has recently come out saying he is an alcoholic. He’s 33 years old, and has a very good life. I would never have guessed he was an alcoholic, and I am usually a very good judge of charactor. Apparently he is having many problems in his marriage, and has been hiding his habit from his wife and family. Actually, going as far as hiding liquor around his house.
He confronted me a few weeks ago with his problem and I immediately mentioned AA. He was reluctant as he portrays himself as a well adjusted individual - who has a nice family, good solid job etc…etc… I said anyone who is hiding liquor from his family and wife, in his own home has a problem. However, I have not spoken to him in a good two weeks. We are getting together tomorrow night to play chess at a local club. I was thinking that that would be a great time to talk to him about what is going on in his life. And to give more encouragement for him to go to AA.
Does anyone have any advice on AA, personal experience perhaps? Are they usually a good group of people?
How about any anecdotes on people going through the same things? I’m inclined to tell him about my own experiences with alcohol…but I feel telling stories may not be the best thing? Any ideas?
You could go with him to an AA meeting and see for yourself. Most of the people in the meetings I go to are “normal” people who you would not immediately suspect of alcoholism. It’s not just a bunch of down and out bums and criminals.
It’s definitely worth checking out if he wants to stop drinking. I don’t know too many people who quit on their own. And if he’s an alcoholic, only a few other options are out there.
I could be your friend. I am 32 now and have been in recovery for a year. I had (have) a beautiful wife, nice house, and have had good jobs. Still, I drank a stupid amount of alcohol almost every day and kept it hidden from everyone for almost 10 years. Many of us are like him.
AA is about the most decentralizied organization that you will ever find. People on these boards and elsewhere often say “AA says this” or “AA promotes that”. No, AA doesn’t really take position on anything including whether you are an alcoholic or what higher power you should believe in. AA is simply a group of meetings organized around a very loose collection of principles. Anyone is free to start a meeting based on those principles and there is very little leadership except for administrative tasks to keep the meeting running.
The reason I mention the above is that it is important for your friend to find a meeting where there are others like him. I live in an affluent area. Many of the meetings around me consist of affluent professionals. I fit in and learn from them. The one thing I will say is that many members but not all will be quite a bit older. Some people have to live long, hard alcoholic lives before they finally give in.
Other meetings will have people that are literally or practically homeless. These people are good to hear from too but your friend probably will want to find a home group that he has more in common with.
If your friend is thinking that all of AA is a bunch of despondant drunks and he will be the smartest and most successful there then that is 100% false. My home group has executives, business owners, and other influential people in its ranks.
I’ve done a fair bit of investigating and I have found a meeting close ot him. I don’t know as of yet if he has been going regularly but I will offer to go with him. The meeting has a bunch of letters in it’s title “O, BB, NS” Which I think means Open meeting, Big Book and Non-smoking from what I gather. I’ll see if he wants to go with me.
I think it will be a good idea for myself to hear some of the things in the meeting as well. I’ve had my own battles with Alcohol but have remained in control for the most part. I really feel for my buddy, he’s going through a tough time. When I look at him I can see he’s gained a bunch of weight, and just doesn’t seem 100%… thanks for the insights so far!
I am not sure that you want to take him to a Big Book meeting in the beginning. Big Book meetings can be important but those are the ones that fuel just about every negative stereotype against AA. I am very pro-AA but even I think that Big Book meetings can be boring and seem antiquated. In Big Book meetings, people generally go around the room and read a paragraph at a time from the Big Book. In addition, the Big Book was written in the 1930’s so it has a little different take on things that might throw a nebie off.
I would try to find a Speaker meeting or an open discussion meeting. 12 Step meetings are useful to understand the program.
I read my Big Book sometimes but it is by far my least favorite meeting.
I might be crazy, but I don’t really see any reason for your friend to join AA. He has a solid job, friends, pretty okay life it seems, family might not be working out, but whose does? His life seems pretty together to me. He drinks every night? Yeah, a lot of people I know drink every night. I don’t think you should question whether or not you’re a good “judge of character” just because you couldn’t tell this guy was an alcoholic. I know, I know, the good folks at MADD and AA would have you believe that all alcoholics beat their wives, can’t hold a job and drive over babies in their cars while completely blitzed, but such is not the case 100% of the time. Maybe I need to know more about the situation, but from the sounds of things, this guy’s life is pretty under control. His drinking does not appear to interfere with the rest of his life.
I’m going to take a wild guess and say that Philosopher probably knows his friend better than you do.
Also, MADD and AA are completely separate groups of people.
AA has never tried to convince me of anything. They told me that I’m the only one who can say whether I’m an alcoholic or not. I’m certain they will tell this guy the same thing. Believe it or not, they aren’t selling anything. It’s a fellowship of men and women who are there to help each other stop drinking. If the guy doesn’t want to stop, then he will keep drinking. AA isn’t going to interfere with that unless he wants it to.
Yes, but reading between the lines, the OP implies that there’s a problem. How much is the friend drinking every night? Why does he feel he has to hide it? If he’s drinking moderate amounts, but has to hide it because of cultural or religious regions, then I’d say that maybe you’re right and the problem isn’t his drinking, but rather one of how much he wants to adhere to traditions. Still, I’m guessing that’s not the case here.
Well thanks for that even though it is 100% off course. AA says none of those things and practicing alcoholics often have live’s that seem “under control” even as their live’s are spiralling out of control. Speaking as someone who was like his friend, there is often still turmoil inside and outside. Family members often have grave fears but don’t discuss them outside of the family. Major tragedy including lose of job, life, or home could only be days away.
The major point, however, if that alcoholism is progressive and it is noble and responsible to help someone try to overcome their problem before they hurt themselves or others more.
John’s* relationship with alcohol started in College. I’ve known him for 20 years, and most of us outgrew the drinking everyday thing. Or at least not getting blitzed every day. John did not. He came to me stating he had a problem and I knew what he was talking about. He hides liquor in water bottles so his wife doesn’t know he’s drinking. :eek: This came out of the blue when he told me. I asked him why he did that and he said that he didn’t want his wife to know he needed a drink every night. I’m sure there are some other deep seated issues going on, but I’m certainly not going to dismiss his behavior as something that doesn’t need help.
[QUOTE=Phlosphr I asked him why he did that and he said that he didn’t want his wife to know he needed a drink every night. I’m sure there are some other deep seated issues going on, but I’m certainly not going to dismiss his behavior as something that doesn’t need help.[/QUOTE]
Phlosphr, this sounds encouraging; it might be that your friend sounds like he might be right on the cusp of accepting a bit of help. Man, I was in serious denial for years, and if someone accused me of needing a drink, I would sincerely, honestly, think he was full of crap. Then again, he might be more like me, who needed a few years of degradation first
Eh, I don’t think I was stating or suggesting that I know Phil’s friend well enough to dispense meaningful advice. If Phil has been friends with “John” for 20+ years, clearly he would be the better judge of whether or not John has a problem than I. But if the only issue is he drinks just about every night, I do not see that as a problem at all. So what if he holds down a career, has meaningful friendships, no DUIs on his record, perfectly functional guy. If he takes great lengths to hide how much he drinks or is deeply tormented, that could be another issue. Some people are reluctant to openly discuss how much they drink because others might have a problem with it. “Oh my, you drink daily? You need help!!” even if the person’s life is just fine.
Just my very humble opinion. I already know no one is going to agree with me, and that’s fine.
In my experience AA sounds like a good place for your friend to try. I too would suggest he try an “Open Discussion” meeting as a first experience. These meetings are opened to anyone, including anyone just curious about the program. You are indeed likely a good judge of character. Addiction has nothing to do with character.
As to some of the other discussion that invariably shows up in AA discussions on message boards I have a perspective that may help and has helped me. The “Big Book” is a “textbook” of the program of AA. In fact in the preface it says so. The meetings are a “fellowship” where people get together to share their experiences in applying the program. Yes the book is almost 100 years old but I find it still relevant to me. It is a book about the way the first hundred “AA’s” stayed sober. They did pretty good, not perfect but most, with some starts and stops, stayed sober for most of the rest of their lives. Good enough plan for me to at least give a try! I have never enjoyed BB meetings as much as others but I can read and understand, many can’t.
Like other subjects, say calculus, I could by a book and try to learn it. It would work if I was committed and tried really hard. I could take a class with others, discussion, solving problems together etc. and this could be the best way. Or I could go to class and read the book too and I bet my chances of being able to work calculus would improve.
Today, sober for a few 24 hours, I don’t rely on “the fellowship” as much as in the past. Most of my friends are sober and I speak with some daily. It works for me. I have a good relationship with my wife (now) and adult kids, some who never saw me drink, good job, nice house and crappy health (only some related to long term effects of a “party” lifestyle that cropped up much later).
Have your friend give it a shot, so to speak.
It sounds like John may find AA to be a good thing. He know that he needs to drink at night, and he may want to look at himself and find out why he wants that drink and what might replace drinking.
A lot has been said about the twelve steps being a spiritual process, not a religious one. IMHO, it’s true. The idea isn’t to share a common view of God with others; the idea is to know others who may share an interest in some level of self-awareness and in living a better life, knowing that each person’s path will at least be a little different. It sounds as if John is looking for something better, and ultimately he is the one who is able to choose what that ‘something better’ is. The steps are the roadmap for this program, but I’ve
I guess that I should say that I’ve never been a long term member of any twelve step group; I don’t drink much and I eventually felt like a duck out of water with Al-Anon. That said, I’ve found that the steps fit in pretty well with my overall ideas of how to handle things and are a good roadmap for trying to live my life.
There are a few nuts in any crowd, but most of the folks that I have known in AA and the like have mostly been… er, good people (sorry, but I can’t think of a better platitude); open, honest and accepting. Along with that, they tend to value honesty over white lies, but that may be because they spent a lot of time lying to themselves.
I am impressed that we had only one dissenter in an AA thread. That is some real progress for the SDMB.
Sounds like this guy just needs that little bit of help that is being offered as it looks as if he has admitted to himself he has a problem. That is a big hurdle, that it is out of the way now is prolly the most important thing to get him on the road to a better life…
Got a day or three in the AA program and it works for me…
Your friend isn’t an alcoholic because of flaws in his character. You don’t have to be a bad person to become an alcoholic. You will indeed become a bad person the longer you are a drinking alcoholic. Alcoholism erodes your character.
Good for your friend - I hope he finds the same support through AA that has helped so many other people.