Pitting my best friend: You're out of control!

The BBQ Pit
1

My best friend is so completely out of control in his life that I don’t know where to begin!

He recently got in trouble with the law for being caught on some serious illegal stuff, and is now attending Narcotics Anonymous meetings as part of his judgement.

Is there nothing being discussed at that meeting that gives him the slightest inkling of the fact that he obviously drinks too much too? How about having friends keep mentioning to him that he drinks too much? How about having his best friend (me) try to explain to him that while his behavior may not seem excessive within his social circle (the West Hollywood club crowd is all about drinking, smoking, and promiscuity), others outside his circle (including more socially responsible gay men, the kind he claims he’s looking to have a relationship with) see it differently.

I hate to say it, but the adjective most often linked to his name these days is “drunk”. Not that anyone’s called him “a drunk” yet (except me, in my mind), but stories about him almost always involve his being or getting inebriated.

And while I’m pitting his inability to control his behavior - I’ve lost count of the number of times he’s tried to quit smoking. I try so hard to be supportive of him when he does. When I see him try to bum a few puffs off someone else, I remind him that he’s going to get hooked again, and he always brushes me off with some “special occasion” type of excuse. He spent a small fortune on the patch in '99 quitting just before our trip to Europe. While there, (because he can’t imagine partying without drinking, and he can’t imagine drinking without smoking), he started again. I warned him it was going to happen, and he brushed me off with “Oh, it’s just when we’re out partying” and later “I’ll quit again as soon as we get home” (he didn’t of course). Later he claims stress (I believe it, with his family) is the cause. But how many addictions does it take? He claims stress is why he smokes and why he drinks. He lies to me about the drugs, so I have no idea if he stopped using them or not.

I’m not with him enough to know how much he’s drinking without me, but I suspect he’s going out drinking mininum once a week, probably more like 2 or 3. And he usually drinks to get drunk. The worst part is, he sees nothing wrong with drinking to the point of plastered. I point out to him after the fact that he’d had too much and was behaving stupidly, and he laughs! He thinks his out of control behavior is funny.

His other friends and I are starting to discuss our suspicions about him, but none of us really knows what to do about it that will work. He’s very easily depressed (luckily, he’s on some legal medication for that, which is helping, but it isn’t a cure), so we have to tread carefully to make sure we don’t get the opposite of the desired reaction.

I’ve been considering staging an intervention, but without knowing exactly how much and often he drinks, I’m afraid of taking action prematurely.

DAMN YOU! Damn you for putting your best friend through this! DAMN YOU for hiding things from me and making me lose the ability to trust you! DAMN YOU for refusing to realize what an ass you’re making of yourself! DAMN YOU for not wanting to change, because without that, there’s NOTHING I can do for you! DAMN YOU for making me stand by helplessly and watch you bring yourself to this ruin!

2

Better try Al-anon. Then at least you can keep from going crazy.

3

NA and AA tend to keep strictly to their own sides of the street. So unless and until your friend wants to go to AA/gets picked up for DUI and send to AA/gets told by someone at NA that it’s hard to get straight when you’re drunk, too, and maybe he should go to AA, he probably is gonna keep on drinking.

What Quagdop said. There’s little harder than standing by and watching someone else self-destruct, but all too often help provided by well-meaning friends and family is equally destructive. You’re in an area with lots of great Al-Anon; get thee to a meeting, and if you’re not comfortable at it, keep trying. There are probably several dozen meetings a day you can try.

4

NA carries a strong “avoid alcohol” message for the drug addict too, Mama Tigger. The NA preamble talks of the NA members’ misery and failure at trying to stay off drugs while drinking alcohol. They treat alcohol as another drug to be avoided.

5

Oh, I would never involve his family!
His parents are, I believe, the cause of his self-medication. There’s nothing that will turn his ears off to a subject quicker than having the lecture come from his parents’ mouths. The sheer amount of stupid shit his parents get on his case about would blow your mind. How many people ground an 18-year old for leaving his bed’s decorative pillows on the floor? And 8 years later, things are no better. He moved home after law school to study for the bar exam, and hasn’t been able to leave yet because he hasn’t found a suitable job (and of course that little arrest of his has ahem delayed his getting sworn in). His mother still refuses to respect his privacy, barging into his room at any time without invitation. Her idea of “knocking before entering” is knocking-then-entering.
A recent argument with his parents (started because his father didn’t like his tone of voice when answering his mother’s question) ended with his father removing a part from his car to keep him from leaving (I was expecting him to meet me that afternoon). The last thing I’d want to do is involve people like this in any attempt to actually help him.

6

Yes, but I know in SoCal NA sticks strictly to dealing with the drug issue; they say to avoid alcohol, but if you want to DO it, you have to go to AA for it. Same for AA and drugs. The issue is identification with those who share your problem. Contrary to popular belief, there still are a lot of alcoholics who ONLY drink and a lot of drug addicts who NEVER drink, so each group sticks to what it knows best for treatment.

Morrigoon, nobody is suggesting involving his family. Quagdop suggested that YOU go to Al-Anon. It’s for friends of alcoholics as well as family members.

7

Stop being a little bitch and let your friend make his own mistakes.
You are not responsible for him, get a life!

8

Pool, do you have any friends, or at least know what it feels like to care about someone?

9

I’m not doubting that he’s probably got serious problems, but getting plastered at least once a week would be seen as perfectly acceptable and normal over here.

And do you have any idea how difficult it is to give up smoking? I’d say that, in terms of one’s mental state (not health) that the smoking is the least of his problems. Let him get over the other shit before worrying about the nicotine.

10

Talking to his other friens is a good start, because often a person with troublesome behavior will be giving partial truths to a lot of people. For example, if you know that he went out drinking Tuesday, Friend B might know that he went out drinking on Thursday, Friend C might know of something else, etc. Pool all of your knowledge and you get something close to the truth.

Also, it is a huge concern if he is drinking that much while on antidespressants. With some of them, it’s never OK to drink. With others, it’s OK to have a small amount of alcohol. But I doubt that any prescribing doctor would find it OK that someone was drinking themselves silly while on antidepressants. (or, at all, most likely)

11

I agree with jimm.

I opened this thread waiting to read about someone truly self destructing. The further down I got in the OP the more I thought to myself “so what?” It hardly sounds as if this guy’s got one foot in the grave. Drinking once a week does not an alchoholic make. Most of the people I work with drink a lot more than that, and I work in a very professional environment.

Honestly, lumping in his smoking habit with drinking and drug use speaks for your tight-ass ness. You’re going to alienate him and lose him as a friend if you harp on him for every vice he has. It sounds to me like you’re riding him pretty hard, and that’s not going to make him quit any time soon, all it’s going to do is make him want to get as far away from you as possible.

This guy has graduated law school and still lives at home? This has been discussed in other threads and a concensus has been reached that there’s nothing wrong with this as long as you have a good relationship with your parents. If his parents are truly making his life hell, then he needs to move out. Period. He’s an adult, he has a law degree for Og’s sake, he can handle moving out of mommy and daddy’s home. Can’t afford it? Get a freakin’ roommate.

Honestly, aside from the drugs (which, due to your lack of elaboration, I’m assuming is a problem if he was required to attend NA meetings) I think you’re overreacting. Be there for him, be his friend, but don’t harp on him about things like drinking once a week or smoking. Stick to the things that really are problems, it’s the only thing that’s going to actually help him.

12

lez: Drinking once a week does not an alchoholic make. […] don’t harp on him about things like drinking once a week or smoking.

From the OP: friends keep mentioning to him that he drinks too much […] the adjective most often linked to his name these days is “drunk” […] he usually drinks to get drunk […] he sees nothing wrong with drinking to the point of plastered […] He thinks his out of control behavior is funny.

And as lorene pointed out, this guy is taking medication for depression, and I don’t know of any such medication for which heavy drinking (even “only” once a week) isn’t strongly contraindicated.

Doesn’t sound to me like the OP is really overreacting. lez has a point that this much drinking doesn’t necessarily make someone an alcoholic; plenty of people can take it or leave it alone. But big-picture-wise—this guy’s been taking illegal drugs, he’s constantly trying to quit smoking and can’t, and his friends (and this crowd doesn’t exactly sound like a band of small-town straight-arrow teetotalers, either) are concerned about the frequency and intensity of his drunkenness. Behavioral control issues here, possibly serious? I’d say, yup.

13

To be blunt, sounds like this guy is trying to off himself but doesn’t have the guts to pull the trigger (or take the dive, etc. etc.). There’s no helping him unless he wants to help himself which, according to what you’ve written, he doesn’t. So either taser his dumb ass and haul him to some sort of brainwashing facility or wash your hands of him. Your call.

14

He’s an addictive personality. That will never change. If he quit the drugs, the drinking, and the smoking, he would find something else to fill the void. He needs counselling, and lots of it. He will probably need to hit rock bottom before he makes any changes.

What you need to do, **Morrigoon[/ b], is decide how much of a part of his life you can stand to be, and make that happen. (As for me, I have no tolerance for addictive personalities and have as little to do with them as possible. I don’t blame them for being the way they are, but I don’t hang out with them, either. This is based on my personal experience with them. Your mileage may vary.)

15

Kimstu,

I’ve never been on antidepressents and have never been close to anyone who has, so I’m unfamiliar with how they mix with alchohol. I imagine, not well. The fact that he’s drinking while taking them is not a good thing, I agree. I also stand by my statement that the OP is overreacting, namely because she’s describing his behavior like he’s completely out of control because he smokes cigarettes and drinks once a week. That sounds like pretty normal behavior to me. Hell, I smoke cigarettes and drink maybe once a week. My friends and family are hardly thinking of planning an intervention.

I think some clarification from the OP is needed, because from what was written, I don’t see cause for alarm just yet. I’m guessing there’s more to the story than has been written. The only thing that even caught my attention was that he had to attend NA meetings from being caught with “serious” narcotics, whatever those were. That is obviously something to be concerned about, the other stuff however, doesn’t seem to be, from what’s been written thus far.

16

Does he drive under the influence? Does he even bother looking for work?

Once a week is not too bad if you behave responsibly. But, if he doesn’t have a job, how is he paying for his booze and drugs?

I wouldn’t expect him to stop all of his addictions at one time. I would cool it about the smoking until he is free of any other substance abuse.

I agree that he needs counselling – badly and quickly.

17

Horseshit. Complete and utter horseshit.

I am an NA member. At the begininng of EVERY meeting you will hear the following:

and

18

Clarification:

He drinks at least once a week, and he drinks to get drunk. To the point of lampshade on the head silliness. Luckily, he’s a happy drunk. If he were an angry drunk, he’d have no friends left.

As for the drugs, I don’t know enough to suspect an addiction. He’s going to NA because he got caught. However, one of our mutual friends indicated that he does them more often than I thought he did. In fact, this particular mutual friend has been known to walk away from the group unannounced when my friend gets out of control, because he doesn’t want to be around him.

The fact that <my friend’s name> and the adjective “drunk” are so frequently linked is my cause for concern. No, not all my friends are teetotaling Sunday school teachers. But, for example, when I drink, one is enough, two is a special occasion. Last New Year’s my friend had 6 drinks over the evening. And this was only a couple months after his arrest (for drugs), after which another mutual friend suggested he not do anything for a year, keep his nose clean, and not drink at all. My friend promised to limit himself to one drink in a night. Yeah, that lasted… a couple weeks.

Then when he went on the antidepressants, he was told he’d be feeling the effects of alcohol quicker, so he needed to minimize his alcohol intake. That lasted… a few weeks. The other night night when he got so plastered, well, I’m not even sure how many he had, but it was strong stuff (vodka/martinis).

The reason I linked his alcohol and tobacco use is twofold:

  1. He can’t imagine partying w/out alcohol, and can’t imagine drinking w/out wanting a cigarette
  2. It’s evidence of his addictive behavior, which is the biggest cause of concern for me

I probably should not have left out my concerns about his rampant promiscuity. In an age where AIDS is a huge concern, and your best friend is a gay man who gets drunk too often, well… you fill in the blanks. He claims he uses protection every time, but he forgets that I know enough of his past partners that one of them mentioned him getting drunk and not wanting to use protection.

I really try to stay off his back. I drop hints occasionally, but I try not to lecture or get in his way, lest I sound like his parents and lose all ability to influence him whatsoever. But how can I not worry?

Anyway, should someone trying to get a job in a professional field worry about being known as a “drunk?” I would think so…

19

Someone trying to stay alive and healthy should be worried about being a drunk, a drug user, and a participant in high-risk sexual activity. Your friend has a lot of problems. My hope for him (and you) is that the bottom he hits isn’t fatal. It probably will be. As someone mentioned earlier, he’s committing long, painful suicide.

20

6 fucking drinks over an evening? Pints right? Lord help me; tell me they were at least pints or 3 fingers of scotch.