Would Biden win with a “let’s get back to normal” campaign theme?

Yes, I completely believe that Biden, whose political campaign is only viable due to to the temporary support of a small group Never Trump republicans and a larger group of conservative boomer democrats, will do all these radical leftist things in his first 100 days.

I don’t care about most of this stuff anyway. It’s too late to do anything about climate change. I don’t have kids and never will, & if all of these legions of people with young offspring can’t bring themselves to give a shit about climate change then I am done caring about it too. The whole idea of gun control needs to die- women, minorities and people in urban areas need to protect themselves from the government, crooked cops & increasingly bold fascists. And miss me with all that identity politics bs & pandering- I don’t care about the melanin content or estrogen levels the VP or next Supreme Court judge will have.

I just wanted a healthcare system comporable to every other developed country in the world. That’s it. I don’t want me or my family to be bankrupted by a cancer diagnosis like my aunt was. Nothing more. Boomers said “no fuck u, medicare is only for us.” Ok fine, then give me a UBI. If not, then what am I voting for exactly? Please don’t say saving democracy. We don’t have a democracy. Thanks to the electoral college my vote for president has never mattered. The Senate doesn’t matter because it disenfranchises Americans who don’t live in rural states. The House doesn’t matter because its membership is too small to accurately represent its voters, and congressional districts are obscenely gerrymandered. Millionaires & billionaires will continue to run everything regardless of whether a president has an R or a D next to their names.

Just give my 1k month and I’ll even go out and volunteer for your nursing home president’s reelection.

So to summarize your argument, pjacks, it is threefold:[ol][li]Biden can’t/won’t follow his published platform, aka ‘that’s not his real agenda’,[]you don’t care anyway, and []you do care, but only about healthcare costs, and only insofar as federal money gets sent directly to you because systemic changes can’t happen.[/ol][/li]My argument, the only one I’ve made in this thread, is that it’s Not True that Biden is merely running an “I’m not Trump” campaign, and the assertion that he has no plans or policies and promotes no changes is an untruth specifically intended to harm his campaign electorally.

I frankly give no craps whether Republicans, glib cynics or random ageists on the SDMB acknowledge that fact. But I wholeheartedly believe earnest but inattentive voters should be told when they spread disinformation.

Hillary had a lot of plans hidden away on a nice website too.

The reason that Fake News from the Kremlin and GOP is destroying America is NOT that fools believe the lies. Those fools were always going to vote Republican anyway.

Instead, the problem is the many Americans who become inured by the lying, and are no longer able to recognize real news. They extrapolate from “Trump and many Republicans are liars” to “All politicians are liars.” In a society desperately thirsty for the waters of democracy, cynical voters stay home or waste their votes. “Trump wins? They’re all Same-same anyway.”

Here are my cites for this claim:

Smart money is still on Donald Trump to be re-elected. :mad:

Sure. “Hidden away” also in her public speeches, interviews, op-eds, Q&A’s, debates, etc. That’s where they put them, those sly secretive Democratic candidates.

If you want to argue against any specific policy position, go for it; there’s plenty of Biden’s that I’m not satisfied with and want a strong Democratic congress to improve. But if you just want to dismiss them all as false promises or impossible dreams, why should any politically active person take any of your other arguments seriously? You’re saying in effect that political platforms have no representative value and no political meaning.

You seem to be here to convince people not to vote. If that isn’t your goal then I’m confused at your intent. Because your easy little snark posts aren’t advancing any actionable ideas, addressing the OP or countering my argument.

Then sell it as a UBI program. Explain how it works - including how it will be funded. Don’t just say “everybody gets a check” which is what had been suggested.

I will point out that a UBI don’t appear to have the widespread popular support you’re claiming for it. There were candidates who called for it and the voters didn’t listen.

I didn’t say Trump would pay people $12,000 a week. I said he could promise them $12,000 a week. Trump has a long history of making all kinds of promises he has no plans for even attempting to keep.

And as far as I can see, McConnell has no problems with Trump telling lies.

I wasn’t implying she or Biden were being secretive. I was implying that no one reads campaign websites. No one cares what Very Serious People have to say about policy differences between candidates. The average voter is completely ignorant to the ideological differences between either political party, and a list of policy positions will make their eyes glaze over. Trump had “MAGA” & “Build the Wall” & “Drain the Swamp” and that was all he needed. You counter Trump with “Medicare For All” or “1k A Month” or something else simple and to the point. Even now Jared Kushner is pushing for the entire Republican 2020 platform to be condensed to fit a single sheet of paper so it can be passed out to voters across the country, as opposed to the 50-something pages that both partys’ platforms have been until now. The messaging & marketing is all that matters in this country completely debased by consumer capitalism & 24/7 advertising.

I don’t really care what Biden’s positions are. Watching the candidates last year endlessly debate the nuances of hypothetical healthcare laws that will never be passed was mind-numbing. None of this matters. Biden would govern as a generic democrat, just like every other candidate, even Sanders. Even Trump mostly governs as a generic republican. Imagine him never tweeting or holding his reality show press conferences, and he is basically a standard Republican president. His cabinet is made up of swamp people who have served Reagan & both Bushes, and any future Democratic president will be surrounded by former Clinton & Obama people. Biden, of course, is likely not to have Senate control in 2021, and even if he does he will be destined to lose both that & the house in 2022. I get that it’s an election year & everyone is already in partisan cheerleading mode, but the fanfic on campaign websites is nothing more than a far-fetched wishlist.

I don’t care if you vote or not. You can do what you want to pass the time or entertain yourself. But unless you live in a dozen or so swing states, your vote for president won’t affect the outcome. Sorry. Maybe someday we won’t have an electoral college that doesn’t disenfranchise the majority of voters in the 3rd most populous country on Earth!

I of course vote in every election. But I don’t delude myself about it. Our political system is broken and has been long before Trump. I admit I sometimes get irrationally triggered when I hear or read things like “a return to normalcy.” This reeks of privilege, and not the moronic form of privilege that college kids from Woke University endlessly drone on about. It’s the kind of privilege that comes from being an older upper middle class person- perhaps someone retired in the suburbs- who clutches their pearls when their president swears or tweets something that contains spelling errors.

Every president in my lifetime has had a kill list. “We tortured some folks,” as Obama nonchalantly once said. I had a close friend return maimed from one of our trillion dollar wars of choice. My life was irreversibly altered by the Great Recession like so many other millennials. This all happened before Trump. If this is the normalcy people want then we are not allies.

The truth is we live in a gerontocracy. Just look at the 70-something that pass for Democratic leaders now. Older voters vote in massive numbers because they are the beneficiaries of massive wealth transfers in the forms of social security & medicare. This, on top of the fact that they came of age during a time of affordable housing, free or cheap college, & a much less competitive job market with better pay & benefits. Democrats want young voters to be another captured demographic like black voters, who have no choice but to vote for the Not-Republicans. Well, I want 1k a month in return. Don’t worry, I will save & invest most of it so I can pay off the inevitable massive taxes on the obscene national debt that older generations have left my generation to deal with.

Who cares how it’s funded? No one cares how our endless wars are funded. It’s been obvious for a while that people my age will never have access to social security or medicare even once we reach whatever age threshold (80?) it’s inevitably moved up to, so I’d like an advance please. Millennials were ruined by the Great Recession, and now we are being further ruined by pandemic and another resulting recession, even though we are largely unaffected by the virus. And we still have the effects of climate change to look forward to. So please just give us some cash while the world burns, k thanks.

I think Biden has to find a way to tie “normal” and “new” together.

I’ve been a vocal Berniecrat skeptic, but people have to move with the times and with the circumstances - and right now is a world away from where we were a year ago at this time.

Biden has to find a little bit of an edge. He doesn’t want to scare away the Wall Street market movers and technocrats who will undoubtedly be called upon to disinfect the post-Trump economy, but he also needs to find a way to convince the dying working class that he’s going to fight for them like a pit bull. Kinda hard to pull that off sitting in your study with a shitty Skype connection while occasionally going out with a black mask on.

And for the love of God, please remind Biden that he ain’t black, and he can’t be the guy to call someone an Uncle Tom.

I think you’ll find a lot of people care.

This is how much people care.

We’re already deep in the hole- might as well keep digging & see what happens. The other side certainly will.

I’d say there are a group of Trump lovers and a group of Trump haters that are unlikely to be swayed much by anything reasonable that Biden does. A ‘let’s get back to normal’ campaign would likely cost him some Bernie voters that don’t think he’s far enough from Trump as it is, and gain him some center righters who are afraid he’s too close to Bernie as it is. I’m not sure which group is most important, and I’m sure his campaign is trying to woo them both.

Biden should come out with a VP pick and a plan that they both discussed for Covid and economic recovery. That’s probably the best they can do to start with.

Could everyone stop acting as if “Back to Normal” and moderation are actual or potential themes presumptive nominee Joe Biden is going with? That’s gone by the wayside, folks; it’s conventional wisdom from pre-Covid campaign analyses. The only return to normalcy Biden is going to push will be in terms of political process; not in agenda or policy set. Look for a more ambitious FDR style, restructuring type of campaign which springboards off the pandemic and the associated economic crisis.

I know I’m not alone in noticing this sea change, because I’m reading about it from a variety of sources. Surely the bright denizens of the Dope are seeing this as well?

Now, to pjacks and anyone persuaded by the utter foolishness they’re posting:

Apathy, cynicism and ignorance are not strong arguments.

So as not to waste effort, here are a few of the things you’re wrong about in this thread:
[ul][li]You appear to believe that voter perceptions about a candidate’s plans have no relation to the acceptance of that candidate’s “messaging and marketing” which you note are primal considerations. This is an incomplete understanding of how political messaging works, how a political message is marketed and how it can be stifled, coopted or perverted by actors outside of the campaign itself.[/li]
-HRC lost votes in critical states in 2016 not because voters don’t care about political positions but because Clinton’s positions were subordinated to artificial scandals and personal dynamics between her and Trump. The “Stronger Together” messaging was not able to take hold because major media and troll-guided chatter in all the social media platforms ignored HRC’s actual positions, plans and real governmental accomplishments in favor of manufactured bullshit.

-Trump gained votes by promising to tear political structures down and to hurt the groups a significant plurality of discontented voters feared and loathed. That’s a much simpler set of political plans and positions which was only buttressed by the coverage from major media, and only amplified by Facebook and Twitter and Reddit and all those other exemplars of sober political discussion. (Plus, supported by foreign bots, trolls and fifth columnists.)
[li]You seem to admire Jared Kushner’s bold plan to fit the Republican platform onto an index card. This is cynicism and condescension toward the electorate, plus unwarranted faith in the marketing wisdom of a failed business dilettante. The 2020 context and the familiarity of the electorate with Trump are vastly different from 2016. I applaud Kushner’s elevation to chief Republican electoral strategist in the same way Sitting Bull must’ve smiled at Custer’s advance toward the Little Bighorn.[/li][li]You believe only votes in swing states matter to the outcome, which is an appeal to probability that would result, if internalized in sufficient numbers by the demoralized or disaffected, in the loss of “solid” states. It also elides the importance of down-ballot races and the criticality of constituent engagement. It’s a cynical and ultimately antidemocratic position that can only stifle a group’s political influence.[/li][li]You completely missed the context and the point of Obama’s [decidedly not nonchalant] admission that the US “tortured some folks.” I urge anyone tempted to accept this falsehood as an accurate representation of Obama’s message to watch the actual press statement and decide for yourselves. Obama: 'We tortured some folks' - YouTube believe policy positions don’t matter and that ‘generic Democrats’ or ‘generic Republicans’ as POTUS are fungible political units without agency beyond the respective party’s arbitrary stances. That’s stunningly ignorant of political history, civics and current events.[/li][li]You appear to have no ante-status quo political knowledge or memory, and believe the actions and utterances of this administration and the cover it receives from this Republican Senate are “standard” and reflective of previous administrations. I won’t attempt to guess why you would assert such a thing, but you’re dangerously wrong and no one reading should follow along that primrose path over the cliff with you.[/ul][/li]
No one should underestimate the challenges facing this country, or the degree to which opportunities have been eroded for millennials and Gens Y, Z and Alpha. But the answer isn’t glib disengagement or arrogant, cynical dismissal of our political structures, nor is it denial of citizen agency in fixing these problems. We can repair the systemic flaws and structural weaknesses of our political and economic system (along with our physical infrastructure). But it’s going to take work -not just from the older people pjacks is blaming as a bloc for all the evils of today, but from all of us, through more civic engagement and more attention to the actual possibilities and realities of government, not through disdain for compromise and disregard of existing process.

Joe Biden is not a white knight who can rescue the nation from any individual crisis or the from the current collection of crises. We’ve never had one of those as POTUS, and nobody should ever expect one, because it’s impossible. Trumpists believed “I alone can fix it” because they’re stupid. (Don’t be like them.)

Nor is Biden a righteous scourge against villainy; he will not interfere with prosecutions of the soon to be former executive branch criminals, but he will never be an Avenger and he will never seek to punish those who evade criminal charges. And, most upsetting to many of us, he’ll actively seek cooperation and compromise across the aisle, and will never shut the opposition out of political processes.

But Biden is a competent administrator with honest priorities and will be a competent executive. He will appoint and nominate other competent individuals and will be receptive to and cooperative with earnest legislative agendas, even if they’re more progressive than he’d like. He’s exactly what we’ll need in the difficult slog ahead of us, and will help to enable his hopefully more progressive successor to go further and do better.

That is Riiiiight on the line, Xenophon.

Everyone just dial is back a few notches. I don’t give a damn how passionate you are nor how right you feel. Making the discussion personal will lead to sanctions.

We’re six months out - close to five - I don’t want this forum to implode before then.

Noted, and I will turn it down.

This, to my mind, is the crux of the biscuit.

Republican candidates win with reaction - motivating voters by scaring or angering them. Democratic candidates win aspirationally. They take the White House talking about what they plan to do and how they can make things change. Both Obama and Clinton - and even Carter, Kennedy and Roosevelt - won on that sort of campaign.

So just running as ‘Trump’s an idiot’ - as Hillary did to a certain extent - isn’t enough to get people out to the polls. Instead it’s important to give our people a reason to vote for him.

The best campaign Biden could run would have him never mention Trump at all. Let others attack him. Biden should focus on what he wants to do and how people will be better off when he’s president. When reporters - inevitably - bring up something Trump says or does Biden can brush it off with a 'Sure, by what’s really important is making sure everyone has healthcare or retirement or a good education or whatever.

Make Trump tangential to his campaign. Trump’s going to be taking shots at Biden the entire time so it’s not like Biden has to define himself as being opposed to Trump. Trump’s going to make that clear. That frees up Biden to argue in favor - not of a return to normalcy - but rather to coming out of our current mess better and stronger.

I agree with this 100%, but what can Biden do to make 2020 any different?

That sounds like a solid answer to my question.

I am unwilling to return to normal, if by normal you mean the status quo ante.

I disagree. Trump is far worse than just another average Republican. Bad as our recent Republican Presidents have been, none of them would have failed as spectacularly as Trump has done this year. And you can’t just dismiss Trump’s rabble rousing when it’s the core of his presidency. Feeding hatred and division is the main thing Trump has done in office.