Would it be evil for me to give Jehovah Witnesses handouts from JWFacts.com when they come here?

I helped my girlfriend stop the JW visits and she never knew it. I was visiting her when she was home from college for the summer and her parents had gone camping for the weekend. As I drove down her street I passed a couple middle-aged ladies who were pulling bibles and pamphlets out of the trunk of a car and handing the pamphlets to a girl who must have been around kindergarten-aged. I figured they’d arrive at my girlfriend’s place in about an hour.

I continued driving and parked in front of my girlfriend’s house. As I approached my girlfriend’s front door I looked up and noticed I could look through the window above the door and clearly see where the stairway from the foyer met the second floor. It wasn’t visible from the street, but if you were following the little cement walkway from the driveway to the door you could look up at just the right moment…

I knocked, she answered the door wearing only a T-shirt, and I handed her the spiffy calculator she wanted to borrow for some courses she was planning to take in Autumn. Then I leaned in close and said, “How long until your parents get back?”

“Two days.” she grinned at me, then turned and led the way into the house, “Where do you want me?”

I thought for a moment as I followed her upstairs, and then a sudden inspiration came to mind. As I passed the landing half-way up the stairs, I grabbed her hip, pointed at the top step, and said, “Right there!”

She looked to where I was pointing, then at me, and grinned, “My! Aren’t we feeling adventurous!”

“You’ll never know.” I grinned back.

We spent the couple hours exploring positions and possibilities, taking into account the structure and layout of the top landing of the stairs. At one point we heard a distant shriek and she stopped to ask, “Was that you?”

“I don’t think so.” I told her, “At least not consciously.”

When I stayed for dinner the next weekend, my girlfriend’s mother noted, “The Smiths next-door say the whole neighborhood got Witnessed last Saturday. Did you see them?”

“I was here all day.” My girlfriend shrugged, “Nobody rang our doorbell.”

Years later, I overheard my girlfriend’s* father saying, “The Smiths asked me how we keep the JW’s away, but I have no idea why they don’t come around any more.”

*By that time, we had broken up, but we’ve always remained friends.

Yeah, but you can’t see what you’re doing!

Am I the only one who wondered why this submission didn’t start with:
Dear SDMB Forum,
I never I’d be writing to the Forum, but this really did happen…

The reason I would consider this different is because I legitimately believe the JWs are a harmful cult.

The guy who is going door to door selling newspapers or whatever knows what the deal is. To me, it is sad that there are JWs who really don’t know a lot about the history of their organization and the devious things the JWs have done to their followers.

I want to make sure I understand your view correctly. Are you saying that you don’t see anything wrong with stories like these:

Taken from this collection of stories of people being shunned

My concept of God includes charity to others, not rejection and hurting others.

Those poor oppressed drinkers (“normal”? In a pig’s eye!), and unwed mothers…how dare anyone reproach them? :rolleyes:

Your third paragraph puzzles me. Do you mean the Witnesses hated someone who had Down syndrome? I used to know a Witness family with a son like that…

Kicking someone out of their church and then kicking a 16 year old out of the house is far from ‘reproaching’ them.

And here I thought the church I grew up was legalistic.

The fact you see those as reasonable responses to transgressions demonstrates how skewed your world view is. Most of us raise good children and lead ethical lives without ever having to threaten to shun them and certainly never having to actually do it.

You’ve been brainwashed and you don’t even realize it.

Not what I asked or implied - There is a difference between making an “error” and outright lieing or stating mistruths. I would ask for a cite or reference to the Watchtower outright admitting a lie - but most of the time, what they really do is simply change direction and never look back - when called on it - they call it “the light getting brighter”.

What I am talking about here is outright deception and lies - things that can not be called a “mistake” or “error” -

Remember -

ANd have been shown, repeatedly, to quote many of these sources incompletely, , mis-quoting them in such a way as to have you believe the source is stating the exact opposite, or in some cases very selectively quoting a part that may ‘agree’ with the point while ignoring the rest of the work that shows it to be false.

This I find highly suspect - to the point that I would say that I find it highly improbable that an ***Elder ***asked you to do outside research - given that the Watchtower Organization thru out its history has specifically warned and advised against it -

and that, on the given subject, you could do enough research as to back up the JW teaching on the subject - given this is one of the many things they have been the clearly dishonest about - using the techniques I outlined above.

But - with all that - you still avoided the very simple question I asked you -

What - in your own words - is a lie?

Would you knowingly associate with an individual - or group - that were shown to be liars?

After all -

My own words? If you want the BEST definition, I shall quote The Oxford English Dictionary, because I consider it to be the best authority on definitions, superior to my own ability. I’ll have it tomorrow.

It’s a simple question, it really is.

I can read the dictionary for myself - I want to know what YOU think a lie is - or what constitutes one.

Why do you avoid it?

Did you even read the rest of the post or the information provided?

I thought about debating dougie_monty on an issue but then I noticed this nice concrete wall. Running into it head first is much more satisfying.

I’m going to go ahead and move my response to this to the pit.



I remember reading about a preacher who caught a lot of flak from his followers for hanging out with tax collectors and prostitutes. I wonder if anything ever came of that kerfluffle?

:Snort: Who needed his presence more?

I think I’d better point something out here: I am not afraid to rely on the dictionary. I have been using them since I was a kid, and I have literally worn out two dictionaries I’ve bought for myself over 45 years.
You want my own words–well, where do you think I get my own words from? I don’t wave a wand.
Your question pretty much demands extemporaneous phrasing. I don’t define words very well that way. As I see it you are entitled to a proper definition–which I will assimilate.

You really need to use a “dictionary definition” here?

As I said - I can read the dicitionary myself - so, don’t bother quoting one - here I’ll even do it for you -

Done- moving on - :sheesh: -

Go back now and re-read the post and the information it contains and comment on that.

How many examples of a lie would it take?

Very good. Now, who needs the examples and support of good, stable, family and social group more?

I find societal attitudes about the dictionary as some sort of holy literary writ to be very odd. Why does it have to be the dictionary’s definition of lie? Given that a good dictionary sources its definitions from the speakers of the language, wouldn’t your definition of as common a word as lie be acceptable? You say that the OED has the best definition. What makes it the best? Its prestige? The sense of antiquity? Because it’s usually the version sitting on the lectern in the library? It’s definition of the verb lie is “a. intr. To tell a lie or lies; to utter falsehood; to speak falsely.” I’m not sure that’s much better than simster’s plain old merriam webster definition.

I’ve been reading this message board for over ten years, and I have seen some weasely avoidances of issues and facts. I think that taking a day to consult the OED before supplying a definition of “lie” is among the weaseliest. Should weasely have one L or two?