Would US troops fire on Canadian civilians?

Many years ago, I read an essay, on the theme, “It’s not a conspiracy, it’s a consensus.”

They don’t have to conspire together, if they all believe the same fundamental things. You don’t need Trump to tell Fox News, “We’re pushing tax cuts this week”, because FN already likes tax cuts, and will push them any time they hear Trump also talking about them. They’re not conspiring, they’re riffing on each other. Trump says “Tax cuts”, FN says, “Tax cuts and jobs!”, Trump says, “Jobs and Tariffs!”, FN says, “Tariffs and border security!”, and it just keeps going around.

I think you’re basically right. My only caveat is that enough of Trump’s shtick is odd enough that Fox et al. sometimes seem to need a bit of extra coaching in order to stay on message. E.g., Hannity sometimes seems to be caught flatfooted by Trump in interviews.

Well, that just speaks to the fact that they’re not conspiring. Sure, most of the time, they’re on the same page, and then Trump comes out with “They’re eating the cats!”, so it takes Fox et al. a day or two to figure out what they should be saying about it.

But they always end up following along, because ultimately, they agree with where Trump is going. They want to demonize immigrants, so if this week, Trump wants to go after “They’re eating the cats!”, that’s where they’ll go. Privately, they might think, “God, that’s so stupid!”, but so long as it gets them where they want to be, the stupidity isn’t an issue.

Yep. But I bet they actually conspire a little bit. Sometimes. Anyhow, sorry for the digression.

If Canada were to become part of the US and A, Canadians would have to pay the same tariffs other Americans would pay on Mexican goods and any other country Trump dreams up. Currently Canadians would not pay American tariffs except on exports, and only if the Canadian government imposed them. What is the incentive exactly for Canada to join the US and A?

you believe NATO would mobilize over this?

I’m not sure what post of mine the last post addresses.

I do not believe Trump would invade any except the weakest. So Panama and Greenland would come first. I cannot get my head around anything more than economic war with Canada, bad as economic war can be.

Start getting your head around it.

Things are going to get bad - very bad. The USA has gone mad and is in the hands of a fascist cabal. We are at the beginning of a great decline in civilization; this is 1933 all over again. As the USA’s allies turn into rivals and world trade drops, the US economy will tank. Federal entitlements will be cut. Trump will need to externalize blame AND steal money from someone. And there’s a big rich, resource-heavy country with a small army right next door he can steal.

You’re a smart human–definitely smart enough to know that we don’t know what’s going to happen. In 1989, the commies could have chosen to smash the people tearing down the Berlin Wall. Indeed, that had been their habit for 70 years. But they didn’t.

There are a lot of actors, both within and outside the US, and we don’t know what they are going to do. Unless you have some special insight into things. I’m not trying to be snarky–I would be interested in your reasoning if you are not just assuming the worst possible outcome.

You are right that this is what will happen if Trump pushes things further, and it’s an Operation Barbarossa/Pear Harbor-level risk. Hitler and the military government of Japan were gutsy enough–and stupid enough–to try it. We know Trump is stupid, but I don’t think he has the guts.

The Soviets did nothing to stop the fall of the Wall or overthrowing of regimes in the other members of the Warsaw Pact because Gorbachev was rationale. He understood the tide had turned against them and other than wholesale slaughter of civilians there was nothing to be done.

DJT and the GOP are not rationale. No matter how many times you and others claim the Courts or Congress will reach a point where they say ENOUGH and stop these people there is no evidence it will play out that way. The Courts do not control any law enforcement officers to arrest anyone and as soon as the Executive and Congress choose to ignore court rulings, the rule of law will be dead. It is already in progress.

They are rational when it comes to their own self-interest, and Trump is an expert at correctly perceiving his self-interest.

If Trump’s kink were war and murder, then it might be in his self-interest, but I actually have not seen evidence of this. Abasing others within reason (his perception of reason) to show who’s boss and “win”? Sure. But he isn’t actually a sadist.

Another reason why Trump will refrain is that he loves to be liked. He needs it.

I agree about the GOP Congress with respect to the current level of chaos. They have done nothing. (Will they tolerate anything? I’m not sure.)

As for the courts, there is a lot of evidence already: they are issuing restraining orders, etc.

They do: federal marshals. Who, in theory, could be told to stand down by Trump’s DOJ. It’s not clear yet how much Trump is going to push in that direction. Time will tell. Pretty soon, I think.

There was a little incident on January 6, 2020 you appear to have missed involving a violent, murderous mob that was incited to take action by DJT. He has embraced them as patriots and actually issued pardons to all of them. To me that shows he is a sadistic narcissist.

Incorrect. Federal Marshals report to the AG and Justice Department. The only thing they do for SCOTUS is coordinate security. When issuing writs or enforcement actions it has only been done in modern time on order of a member of the Executive branch.

Trump didn’t plan the specific events of 1/6, so it’s not as though he was aiming to kill people. I think Trump would kill people, would do almost anything to further his self-preservation and self-interest without compunction, and 1/6 is certainly evidence of that, but I do not see it as evidence that Trump foments violence for its own sake.

I’ve heard several legal experts discussing this issue on YouTube who have said that, in theory, a federal court could order federal marshals to enforce a ruling. But IANAL, so I can’t argue further than that (I would cite the videos, but that is just one element of usually long pieces. Michael Popok on the Legal AF channel has discussed this extensively, albeit not in a concentrated manner).

I was referring to your idea that NATO would get involved, which I doubt

I have looked in a number of places including on the official government website for the U.S. Marshal service. Everything indicates the service reports directly to the USAG. While they have had situations where they have arrested individuals and served warrants for federal courts I cannot find a single situation where they have been ordered by a Federal judge, much less by SCOTUS, to perform enforcement action of any court decision. None.

If you or another poster knows of such a situation I would actually enjoy finding out about it. Ignorance fought, you know?

Right. I guess we’ll find out pretty soon if Trump continues to maintain his current reckless direction.

Starting to see carefully curated videos and social media posts saying the US should “liberate” Canada by force.

Liberate from what though? We’re mostly content with our country and our leadership the way it is. Certainly not wishing for the Trump authoritarian machine to take over.