I’ve heard Canada is a big country. Your concerns might not be as compelling in Vancouver as they would be in Calgary.
EV tires are designed for low rolling resistance. Winter tires are not. But in slippery conditions yo7 lose range regardless of the tires, and you might lose less with winter tires because they grip better. But winter tires in winter conditions will not come close to the range of EV tires on dry pavement.
If you are plowing through snow, or driving in really slippery conditions, you will lose range to that as well.
The thing with EVs is that part of the reason they have the range they do is because of efforts to shave off drag and friction everywhere. Low rolling resistance tires, aerodynamic bodies, etc. In winter you lose a lot of that. And a lot of the battery’s energy has to go to heating the battery and the cabin.
Since I don’t live in Vancouver, this point is irrelevant for me. I’m exploring the thread title: « Would you buy an electric vehicle? ». I need to consider my driving conditions, not those in a place over 1500 km away.
Oh, Vancouver is fine. There’s rarely snow on the roads, it doesn’t get to -25, etc. I’d have no problem buying an EV there.
Here in Edmonton, just going to the airport and back is 80km from where I live. Driving to Calgary is about 300km. If I made that trip in an EV in winter, I would have to stop to charge probably 3 or 4 times.
Speaking of that… When looking at charging while driving long distances, remember that you will probably only charge between 20% and 80% of your battery, as charging gets really slow above 80%, and it’s not good for the battery to let it regularly go from 0% to 100%. So good battery management means you’re really only using 60% of the range of the car between stops. So if a car has a 300km range, you will want to charge every 180 km or less. If you’ve lost half your range due to winter conditions, your 300km car is really a 90km car in everyday winter traveling.
right. But Sam said “Canada.”
I guess, to be fair, he probably meant “where I live in Canada.”
I’ll retract my snark.
Vancouver is a bit of an outlier in Canada’s weather patterns.
They do, but there is a huge difference between buying one coming off a 3 year lease and one that is 7+ years old. I would touch the latter but an off lease should be fine and a big discount over new.
BTW: My Prius is still doing great for my daughter now. The car is 13 years old and has over 100,000 miles. Only a hybrid and not a plug in but the batteries do hold up for a long time and many charging cycles.
So they don’t last as long? My current vehicle is 13 years old. Would I have to budget for replacing an EV more often? That would be an important factor.
ETA: posted this before What Exit’s edit.
Our rule of thumb is at 20F (-5C) is we get about 50% of the miles per charge than we normally get in our Tesla Y.
I would expect 10 years and hope for 15. Thus far that seems to be what the results are saying. In fact a lot of the batteries are guarantied for the 10.
So fine for people that keep cars 3-10 years. But for 13, I’m not sure if electric is a good bet for you yet.
Industry is saying up to 20 years, but they’re also hedging their bets at 10 years. Correction, they are now expecting 15 years. That is good news. But one that is 5 years old, I wouldn’t expect to get 15 total.
The Tesla Model 3 has a nominal range of about 500 km. The relatively inexpensive Chevy Equinox SUV has a nominal range of about 400 km.
Now, assume a worst-case super cold day and the terribly pessimistic battery performance according to your own previous estimates, and you get a range of 250 and 200 km, respectively. How does that translate to stopping to charge “probably 3 or 4 times” for a 300 km trip?
ETA: Worth noting that the performance degradation in cold weather starts to flatten out as temperatures drop further:
I would consider a used EV or hybrid. Determining the value would be tricky. If manufacturers had a plan to certify used EVs and provide a warranty it could be very attractive. I don’t travel more than 10 miles in a day very often, avoid going out in the cold, and my wife has a 20 mile round trip to work. We’d probably keep both our current cars initially so limited range wouldn’t be a problem.
If I had a Tesla model Y (500km range) and it was -25, I would assume 40% range because of temperature, take another 10% off that for winter tires and snow. So 150km of expected range.
I start out at 100% battery, and don’t want to go below 20%. So my ‘responsible battery owner’ range is 120km. It will be very tight to make it to Red Deer, the halfway point to Calgary. I might go a bit below 20% by the time I get there, but I could live with that.
But in Red Deer I am only charging to 80%. So now I only have 60% of ‘full’ range before I hit 20% again, or 90 km. Calgary is 150km from Red Deer, so I have to stop and charge somewhere before I get to Calgary. Then of course I have to charge once I get to Calgary.
I am leaving out the issue of emergency range. I never let my gas car get below 25% on a winter road trip, and like to refill if I’m below half and passing a gas station. Being without energy in a stuck car in a Canadian winter is a very bad idea. Pushing an EV’s range in winter is a bad idea.
I actually had/have a recent thread about my EV shopping. Given my requirements, if I could get a used EV (and I’d have it checked out of course) that met them (AWD, remaining effective range of 150+ miles to allow for commute distance and cold weather loss) my wife would absolutely buy one if the price was right… well, at least once we re-wire the house (sigh).
Of course, I’m also in the view that as stated upthread, in 3-5 years or so, they’ll be a ton more selection of such vehicles on the market, which would be a boon, as the number of AWD BEVs are comparatively low.
Some of those same factors you cite, and others, also affect the range of ICE vehicles in winter weather. The maximum range of my current ICE vehicle isn’t much different from that of a Tesla, and drops in winter, especially on short trips.
In the final analysis the “range anxiety” about EVs comes from charge time and the availability of roadside charging stations. Hopefully both will improve over time.
Moderating:
Not actually pertinent to this thread. Please no replies derailing from the OP.
This is specific to the ICE Winter range.
Note that a 2023 EV will have better range than a 2013 one. Obviously since ICE is a more mature technology the year over year changes in performance are far more minor than in EVs which is a concern when buying used.
Eta: I hope the mod note is about range-in-winter, not range-as-related-to-buying-used.
The only factor that changes when evaluating a used EV compared to a used ICE are related to the powertrain. Things like brakes, suspension, interior trim, non-powertrain electronics, etc. are really no different.
Makes and models may in general have better or worse reliability, and regardless of the expectation, any particular vehicle may be in good or bad shape. A 6 year old car with 100,000 miles is no more or less likely to need suspension work or have rips in the seats because it is an EV or ICE.
As mentioned, the big thing to look for on an EV is battery degradation. If the battery is healthy, it will have lost about 15-20% of its capacity since new, but be holding at those values. Based on high mileage EVs, we don’t expect battery capacity to keep declining, excluding catastrophic failures.
One big powertrain advantage for EVs, is that because there is so much less maintenance, the chance of getting a car where somebody has neglected that maintenance is much less.
To answer the question of the OP, if my needs could be fulfilled by an EV, and the particular vehicle I was looking at seemed to be in good shape, then yes, I would buy a used EV.
Mainly true about the battery but the drive train out to the wheels is very different than conventional cars. I assume they are not exposed to the environment as much as conventional cars that need substantial engine cooling but there isn’t a ton of data about the life of the motor, transmission, regenerative braking components, etc. Whenever I buy a used car I’m looking for likely parts to fail like starter motors, alternators, water and fuel pump, radiator and A/C components.
I thank you for your insightful contribution. I have never owned an electric vehicle myself.
As an aside, The Globe had an article about a reporter who drove a Tesla cross country. Though he liked it, he noted charging stations tend to be expensed by the minute. But stations differed a lot in the amount of current delivered so that the time taken could vary a lot.
Is this the experience of Dopers here? Do stations vary a lot in terms of time taken? Is charging rate an issue depending on battery type, battery charge or extreme winter/summer temperatures (say -40C (-40F) or +40C (104F))? Is it normal to expense charging based on time?