Would You Buy A Used Electric Vehicle?

In My Humble Opinion
41

They don’t lose nearly as much, as they don’t have a battery to heat. And in winter an ICE engine vehicle is more efficient overall because some of the waste heat is used to heat the vehicle. In an electric car, you have to use battery for heat, which cuts down on the thermal efficiency of the car as a system. Also:

A) gas cars can be filled up in 5 minutes.
B) There are gas stations everywhere.

Bringing this around to the OP, I’ve come to the conclusion that the best electric car in Canada right now is probably a Tesla, simply for the availability of charging. Lots and lots of reviews of non-Tesla EVs talk about how great they can be around town, but when they try a long cross-country trip, they wind up saying, “Buy a Tesla if you do this.” Tesla superchargers work, they charge fast, and they tend to be right on your route. Non-Tesla chargers can be found in places like Wal-Mart parking lots, and you often have to drive significantly out of your way to get to one. You often find non-functional chargers, or chargers that are throttled by available electricity. Apps are still buggy, and more than one person has reported that the car reported available chargers ahead, but when they got there the only ones open were broken and that status didn’t make it into the system. That sucks if it changes your charging wait time from 40 minutes to 2 hours.

In addition, there are few enough charging stations for non-Tesla vehicles that ‘charging rage’ is starting to be a thing. Imagine someone cuts you off a Tim Horton’s and how annoyed you might get. Now imagine someone cutting you off for the only open charger, and now you have to wait for an hour. Or someone decides they want to top their car off to 100%, which might take two hours, while you are on empty and have some place to be. In Europe charger congestion is a problem in many places, at 15% market penetration of EVs.

Ford and GM have announced their future cars will charge off the Tesla network. Hyundai has not, so my top choice for an EV, the Ioniq 5, is now off my list.

If I were looking at an EV today, I would lease one. Technology is still moving fast, and ten years from now EVs will likely be very different. A two or three year lease would let you get comfortable with an EV, learn the limitations and benefits, then next time if you decide to buy it will be from a more informed position.

42

So if I need a full charge on an EV, it can take up to an hour? That turns my 2.5 hour trip into a 3.5 hour trip?

43

I considered buying a Tesla ten years ago. What stopped me then was the paucity of charging stations on South Ontario, and the fact I was driving 300km per day, often in -20C weather. The paucity of stations has probably improved, maybe not by that much. I understand Circle K, a Quebec convenience store (Couche-Tard), has invested heavily in charging stations in Norway, and hopes to bring the expertise they develop to Canada.

Anyway, are there enough charging stations to give one the relative luxury of sticking to the 20-80% range for heavier drivers?

44

My understanding is that they do that in Canada because of legislation that forbids reselling electricithy by the kWh unless you are a licensed reseller.

I don’t know if I mind that, because time is an important variable at chargers, and just charging by kWh would let someone sit there all day trickle-charging their battery and tying up a spot. It should probably be some combination of time and charge rate that you pay for.

However, when charging at superchargers don’t expect to save a lot of money. In some locations, supercharger charging doesn’t save much over filling an equivalent vehicle with gas. At .65/kWh, which is a number I’ve seen thrown around for supercharging where they charge by the kWh, A Ford Lightning truck extended range would cost about $90 to charge. A Tesla long range about $50. Home charging is obviously the way to go when you can.

45

https://electrek.co/2023/10/05/confirmed-hyundai-motor-group-is-latest-automaker-adopting-nacs/

To say it’s improved would be incredible understatement. Ten years ago, there were 8 Supercharger stations, total, in all of North America. Today, there are over 5000, and those have over 50,000 stalls.

46

Most cars will only charge at full rate below 80%. So if you want to top up to 100%, you will wait a long time for that final 20%. Also, I hear there is an etiquette at charger stations that if they are full you should leave once you hit 80%. Some cars can get from 20% to 80% in 15-20 minutes, but would need another hour or two for that last 20%. And manufacturers generally recommend that only when you absolutely have to have that extra range.

If you are driving 300 km per day in winter, I wouldn’t buy an EV. That’s just not a great use case for it. Even if chargers were lined up like a parade, it would still mean having to stop and charge 2-4 times per day. Given the time to leave the road, find a charger and plug in, then wait and drive back out to the highway, you’re probably looking at at least half an hour to an hour per stop. Adding two or three hours per day sitting in a car while it charges doesn’t sound like a great use of time. And since you’d always be charging on the road, you won’t save all that much money.

47

Well, that’s good news. Ioniq 5 and 6 back on the list!

48

I don’t know how common it was (I assume it’s not a thing anymore) but we got “free supercharging for life” without Tesla Model X. It’s quite remarkable to travel with no fuel costs.

49

It can, but that’s only if you need a full charge. Unlike gassing up on a long trip, there is usually no point in charging all the way. You just charge enough to make the next charger (plus a bit of cushion).

50

True, but what mattered to me is how capability improved specifically on the 150km I used to drive to work in a somewhat rural location.

51

It can take a whole lot longer than an hour, depending on what sort of charger you’re using.

52

Well, that I can’t tell you. But many workplaces offer charging now. Even under very pessimistic conditions, and with an older battery that’s degraded a tad, 150 km is fine for any modern EV. Just plug in at work and it’ll be fine for the trip home. No extra time required.

53

Is it? I guess I really don’t know. I’d assumed a wheel bearing is a wheel bearing, and a CV shaft is a CV shaft, whether the power is coming from an electric motor or an IC engine.

The regenerative components are the same as the go components, just with the energy flowing the other direction.

The alternator equivalent is the low voltage DC to DC converter, to get 12 volts out of the 400 or 800 volt traction battery. I’d guess being solid state, it’s going to be more reliable than an alternator, but to me that isn’t the important question. Rather, how easy is it to replace if it fails. Is it $150 in parts and an hour of shop time, or $600 in parts and 4 hours of shop time?

The thing I wonder about EVs is how will the lack of recommended maintenance workout over time? The auto industry has a poor record of exaggerating maintenance schedules in order to make their cars seem less needy. Constant velocity transmissions probably should have their fluid replaced twice as often as recommended; 120,000 mile timing belts probably should be done every 80,000 miles, and maintenance free transmissions, aren’t.

54

Noplace to charge her.

55

Right I went to Tesla and they say there is one supercharger in my city, and one Tesla connector. What’s the difference between those two widgets?

In a city of a quarter million people, that doesn’t seem like much?

And both are in the downtown area, so people driving on the Trans-Canada Highway can’t take the bypass. They have to come to the city centre to charge.

56

I’m not sure where you saw “connector”. Do you mean destination chargers?

Not many Superchargers are necessary. They’re only used for long road trips. Home charging and L2 charging (like the plugs at hotels) will be used most of the time, with the Superchargers only needed on occasion. These are the fast DC chargers, used when you want to get back on the road as quickly as possible.

It does seem bad if the Supercharger is well off of the highway, but that may just mean they have other Supercharger stations nearby. If you’re just passing through, you can just take the nearest station before or after the city. These are generally not far off from the highway (in some cases, closer than the nearest gas station).

57

I have been driving a Hyundai Kona EV since 2019, in Manitoba. My commute to work is 140 kms round trip. I typically charge to 90%. The Kona has a range prediction display which is really accurate so I will be basing my comments on that display. In summer the range is 355-365 @90%, I don’t drive very efficiently, love the punchy acceleration too much :), but I could probably push that closer to 380 if I would drive with efficiency in mind. In winter, at minus 30 or colder C, the range drops to 230 kms, that’s with winter tires. Which is ~37% drop in efficiency. This has been pretty much the same for the 4 years, didn’t notice much change over the years. In the last year, we were recipients of a replacement battery due to the LG recall, so now we have to wait a few more years before the drop off.

58

I looked up Regina (which I’m fairly sure is where @Northern_Piper lives) and there’s one Supercharger station there. It has 8 stalls, not just a single charger. It’s located on Prince of Wales Dr, maybe three km west of where the TransCanada Hwy, coming from the east, turns south to bypass the city. Not downtown (which is a few more km west) but not adjacent to the highway. But it looks like fairly easy access from the highway via Victoria Ave.

Could Regina do with another Supercharger station? Almost certainly, but then so could many other cities.

59

Yes, I found that one off Prince of Wales after I posted. For some reason, my search gave me two different outcomes. Mea culpa.

The ones downtown are one supercharger at a hotel and one other entry:

60

There may be EV chargers other than those ones from Tesla. (Googling, there seem to be a few at a tire store.)