Well, would you? How about homophobic? Would you call me a closeted homosexual?
How about if I said the same thing about furries? Would you call me a bigot or a closeted furry?
I ask this because this seems to be the opinion of some people (gay and straight) I’ve met: that if you have any aversion to homosexuality, hell, if you’re not practically willing to screw someone of the same sex, you’re a bigot. And that doesn’t really make sense.
I think homosexuality is perverted (hell, it is by definition, you can’t really argue it). And, in my opinion, mildly disgusting. However, that doesn’t deter me from supporting gay rights. Am I a bigot?
And even if I’m not a bigot, am I otherwise somehow morally inferior to someone who doesn’t find homosexuality disgusting? Because, as I said, that’s the sense I get from some people, and I’m curious how many people share that opinion.
1 a : to cause to turn aside or away from what is good or true or morally right : CORRUPT b : to cause to turn aside or away from what is generally done or accepted : MISDIRECT
2 a : to divert to a wrong end or purpose : MISUSE b : to twist the meaning or sense of : MISINTERPRET
Which of these do you mean?
How is homosexual by “definition” perverted? Homo is Latin for same and ** sexual** is, well English for sex. So by definition homosexual just means same sex. How do you get perverted out of that?
I had a friend who was a member of a minority group which has historically been discriminated against. His take was, think anything you want about me in your own mind, I can’t control that, but don’t affect my chances. Chances for success, happiness, equality, etc.
Now, I’m not claiming he speaks for anyone beyond himself, but I thought that was a useful way of looking at it. Then the question becomes do your private thoughts have a way of affecting someone’s chances (your twisted look may affect their chances of moving about in the world without feeling the sting of others’ opinions).
“to turn aside or away from what is generally done or accepted”, I suppose (those seem like definitions of “pervert” to me), although I was looking at a different dictionary when I double-checked the definition.
Homosexuality is abnormal, surely you’re not going to argue that.
Amp: homosexualality is perverted, by the definition of perverted.
It depends. If you’re saying that homosexuality in itself is disgusting, they I would tend to speculate that yes, you are a bigot. If you are refering strictly to the sex act itself between two males as disgusting, that wouldn’t bother me. To be totally honest, I find straight sex and female genitalia disgusting. That doesn’t mean that I’m disgusted by heterosexuality, it’s just that the act itself creeps me out.
I could never, ever watch two men having sex. Disgusting isn’t necessarily the word I’d use. Revolting perhaps? I guess the two are somewhat synonymous.
However, I have no problem with an adult male engaging in a mutual relationship with another willing adult. I just don’t want to see it!
Now, two women, that’s a different story!
Oh, and the perverted thing? I don’t think it’s perverted if a tangible percentage of the population is involved. It may be abnormal, since the majority of the population is heterosexual, but calling it perverted – especially since there little doubt that one is hardwired from birth – is not correct.
Ginger hair and left-handedness are both “abnormal”, as are plenty of other traits, so that on its own is fairly irrelevent.
Perverted? Perhaps… the anus isn’t optimised for penetration by a penis (whereas a vagina has developed through evolutionary pressure to be a good fit), so in that sense gay sex (ie. bum sex) is “peverted”… ie. not the purpose intended*
but plenty of straight people have anal sex, so it depends whether it’s bum sex between men specifically that disgusts you, or just a general dislike.
*whole new issue here though, soon as words like “intended” get used! (intended by whom, and for what etc).
I will, unless you are going to take the definition to abnormal at it’s absolute widest. In that case, just everything about me, except my gender, is abnormal. All 6’ tall people would be abnormal. All left-handers. All near-sighted people. All size 9 shoe wearers.
If you are basing off the “especially : departing from the usual or accepted standards of social behavior” then you better define what societies standards you are applying.
I think we would all be a lot better off if we didn’t dwell so much on the actual sexual behavior of people with various sexual procilivites (including plain-vanilla hetero stuff, as well). I have a feeling from your thread that you find the actual sex acts between two men to be “disgusting,” not the people themselves, or the feelings they have. In this sense, I do not think you are a bigot or a homophobe. Whether or not you are closeted homosexual, I think we would need more information do determine that!
Again, if you are talking about an aversion to the actual sex, then I agree that it isn’t exactly fair to judge you for that. On the other hand, if you think a guy is gay and you won’t shake his hand because he squicks you out, then that is another story.
I think it’s good that you do not let your personal, internal feelings determine your political POV. That shows maturity, IMO. We can’t always help our emotional reactions to things…but when we can rise above them, that is to be admired.
Who knows what people REALLY believe inside, anyway? People could swear up and down and around in circles that they have “no problem” with gay people, and you will never know if this is really true. The best you can hope for is that people will, as I said, try to rise above any negative feelings that they might have.
Let’s say that an alien lands on the planet, and says “I want to analyze a human who is normal, or close to it, in all respects.” Are you telling me that you wouldn’t avoid picking someone who’s gay?
Also, no one has answered the other question: what if I expressed the same opinions about furries? Nearly everyone on the boards expresses their revulsion whenever that topic comes up: are they all bigots?
I don’t think the argument that homosexuality is hard-wired at birth really holds water: 1) So what if it is?, and 2) Do we really know where furry-ness (sorry, don’t know the term), pedophilia, and the like come from?
Seconded. I think the distinction between homosexuality and homosexual sex is crucial here.
Two key ideas here. I’d say you’re not a bigot if you just don’t want to watch people having gay sex. But if you don’t want to be around someone who might have had gay sex at some time in the past or might do so at some time in the future, you’re a bigot. If you’re bothered by a same-sex couple doing something in public that you wouldn’t bat an eye at if it were a straight couple (holding hands, kissing, etc), then you’re a bigot.
If you just think “ewwww” when you see a same-sex couple, but don’t do anything else about your bigotry, I’d say that’s OK. But if you shun gay people socially just because they’re gay, or discriminate against them when you’re in authority (as a boss, teacher, etc), that’s a problem. It’s also a problem if you think laws should be passed to keep people from having gay sex or publicly acknowledging a gay relationship. It’s an even more heartbreaking problem if you stop associating with (or do something worse to) a friend or relative because they’re gay.
I don’t think you’re a bad person or morally inferior for thinking homosexual sex is icky, unless you think that ickiness somehow makes anyone who has ever done it inferior, or you want laws passed saying people can’t do it because it’s icky.
I think the same applies to furries- I don’t know and don’t WANT to know what furries do in the bedroom, but I wouldn’t shun somebody just because they were a furry (unless they were a total bore about it, and couldn’t talk about anything else, but that would be because we wouldn’t have any common interests) or think laws should be passed against whatever it is that furries do. I don’t think anyone else on the board has advocated for laws against what furries do, and I’d like to think that most of us would be friends with a furry if they were nice people and had some common interests with us.
