I don’t exactly know if this is the correct board for this post.
I notice that it seems like anyone who says anything even remotely hinting that they do not agree with homosexuality is immediately called a bigot on this board. I personally believe that every person in America should be treated fairly in the eyes of the law. However, I am not in agreement that homosexuality should be treated like there is nothing wrong with it. I don’t feel that gay people should be discriminated against. I don’t feel like being gay should be illegal. I’m not saying that I don’t recognize that two men or two women have the right to have sex with each other. I just personally feel like it is wrong and unnatural. I don’t think that makes me a bigot. However I know that a lot of people on here would disagree with me.
I guess I’ll get to my point, is someone a bigot just because they think being gay is wrong?
What decade are you living in?
Look around next time you go outside.
Notice that the cars no longer have running boards?
Other things have changed as well, including tolerance for the differences among us.
Yep. Thats pretty much the case. See, calling someone a “bigot” is making the statement beased on your opinions.
It’s not like pointing at Duane Allman and sayinh “White guy.” because that isn’t opinion it’s based on something that everyone can observ.
But to be a bigot you have to do things which the person calling you a bigot sees as bigoted. Just like to you being gay is “wrong and unnatural” and your feelings on that are based on your opinions which are certainly ok for you to have, the fact that you have those opinions make you a bigot in my opinion.
Being called a bigot is probably no worse than being told that you are “wrong and unnatural”, or perverted, or any number of things that people who get called bigots have said about people they felt that way about, wouldn’t you agree?
See just like you don’t think gays belong in jail for being wrong and unnatural, I don’t think you should be prevented from making bigoted statements. I firmly believe it is your right to say things which make you seem foolish and bigoted in my opinion. After all, it is just my opinion. And if you think it is ok to tell people that they are wrong and unnatural I only wonder why you think being called a bigot is so bad. Or do you know how hurtful such name calling is? Do you like to hurt people? See if you like to hurt people, well that kinda makes you a Sadist in which case you are at least a little bit of a pervert so now people can call you wrong and unnatural and you can march in a parade and people can yell at you and tell you you shouldn’t be around kids and now you can call them bigots. Ain’t it cool?
I would say that it is, unless they come in here and drag it into the Pit.
If you don’t toe the line properly and say exactly what the PC brigade wishes you to, then you are a bigot, plain and simple. Trust me, I have butted heads with them quite a bit. I’m a bigot and racist since I oppose affirmative action.
While I certainly do not agree with your point of view, I will listen to it and debate it without getting into the personal attacks that seem so prevalent around here.
And of course you forgot that since you’re from Texas, you’re automatically an inbred, Bible-thumping, gun-crazed redneck…generalizations are all right so long as they come from the PC side.
You’ve illustrated my point perfectly. I am being tolerant for differences. I am just not celebrating them. There are a lot of things that people do not agree with or think is inherantly wrong, but they still tolerate them. I tolerate homosexuality. I do not think it should be celebrated as one of the great things that sets individuals apart from one another.
I think that being called a bigot implies that a person is racist. I also think that implies that you advocate treating people differently. I think that all people should be treated equally. I don’t think that I am the slightest bit bigoted.
Also, I am actually from upstate New York. I live in Texas now.
Not true. But when someone says something which is bigoted, they get called on it. Many do not realize how hypocritical they are when they pull the love the sinner hate the sin line, or when they say absurd things about it not being natural or that they just don’t want the homosexuals to go to hell.
And right there you stumble and fall. Why is it that you or anyone else cares or feel they have a right to cast judgement on someone else’s life? You have no idea what it is like, what one goes through, or what one has to put up with in this circumstance. For you to say that last sentence means you feel superior, and thus are being a bigot. Bigotry comes in many forms, and the most insidious form of bigotry comes from the mouths and pens of those who claim to be open-minded.
As long as you have the idea that your way of life is right and someone else’s is wrong, you are a bigot. Phrases like wrong and unnatural show that you have personal issues that are undealt with and instead of dealing with them, you turn from yourself where the problem lies to others who you feel cause your problem. A little more internalizing and less externalizing could be in order here.
A general feature of bigotry is the belief that something is inherently wrong, without a clear idea (or a false idea) of why that might be so.
I used to work with some folks in the oil industry who clearly believed that marriage between people of different skin color was “wrong”. These people were bigots.
Feel free to explain what quality of homosexuality makes it “wrong”, and I am sure someone here will help you see where your logic went awry.
I think you are generalizing a little too much and putting words in my mouth. I never brought religion into this.
You said, “As long as you have the idea that your way of life is right and someone else’s is wrong, you are a bigot.” That is just silly. Then I guess you are a bigot for thinking that my way of life is wrong. I guess that lawmakers are all bigots because they think that order and peace is right and anarchy is wrong. Basically everyone who has ever lived is a bigot because there is no one that thinks that every single way of life is right. It is clearly not bigoted to think that something is wrong. A person is a bigot if they are intolerant towards opinions that are different than there own. I respect that other people have different opinions on this matter than I do. I can even say that over the years my opinion has changed somewhat from listening to both sides of the argument. I am obviosly not intolerant because my stance has changed and most likely will continue to change throughout my experiences in life.
What are you talking about here, “Phrases like wrong and unnatural show that you have personal issues that are undealt with and instead of dealing with them, you turn from yourself where the problem lies to others who you feel cause your problem.” That is just another standard line that people use. I am not a homophobic person. I am not concerned with the plight of homosexuals in my daily life. I am not having any undealt personal issues with homosexuals. I simply feel that this is not something that should be celebrated as a great thing in this world.
I feel that one man and one woman together is the natural relationship. I feel that men and women compliment each other and are better abled to raise children than either two men or two women. I feel that children that are not raised by both a man and a woman are not going to be as well rounded as children that are. It is not absurd at all to think that children that are raised by one sex is unnatural or wrong.
If I had either a daughter or a son that was gay I would be disappointed. I am not saying I wouldn’t love them and protect them, but I would be lying if I said I was ambivalent about there sexual preference. Of course I want to have a child that can fall in love with someone and have a child from that relationship. That can not happen in a gay relationship.
I can not honestly comprehend people that think that gay relationships are natural. It completely prevents them from doing what I think is the meaning of life (I know it is only my opinion) which is falling in love with someone else and having a child come from that love and raising that child to be the best person possible.
First of all can you tell me how to do that quote thing.
I don’t think that that is what bigotry is at all. Bigotry in my mind is someone who is intolerant. And intolerance is someone who can not respect or recognize opinions that are different from their own.
Also I don’t think skin color and homosexuality is a very
good comparison. There are no real difference between people of different race, however homosexuality involves doing a completely different action than the general populace. It is a completely different lifestyle. It involves discarding the male/ female relationship which I think is a fundamental aspect of humanity.
I was making an example, not putting words in your mouth.
I don’t think your way of life is wrong, just your expression and what you had to say about gay people.
That doesn’t make me a bigot, but it does make you one.
But that you feel you can judge what is right for someone else and that you can call someone else wrong and unnatural does make you homophobic. You aren’t a Lon Mabon or a Fred Phelps, but you are oppressing by your desire that we should keep quiet. Everyone should be celebrated as a great thing in this world and appreciated.
Yes, it is. It is claiming one thing is superior to another and is also saying that there is only one right way. I’ve raised children, and have also taught children. They’ve walked away with as well rounded an existence as any other child I’ve met. Perhaps moreso as I make sure that they explore the world and make up their own mind rather than doing what everyone tells them to do. It amazes me that you are fighting for your bigoted point of view and claiming it is not bigotry.
Well, it is nice that you would want to slot your children into the same hegemonic sexual identity that you were forced into. Nice also to know that your love for them would be conditional based on what you feel is right for them and how they should live their life. Basing the value of your future children on their reproductive abilities and desire to carry out what you seem to see as manifest destiny to bear offspring really does not speak well of you.
I cannot comprehend that people think that heterosexual relationships are superior or the desired goal. Nice to know what your meaning of life is, but not everyone on here would agree with you. I don’t care to have children, nor does my husband. My meaning of life is doing the best I can, living to the fullest, and making a difference in the world. I accomplish what I set out to do and am not hampered by apathy.
Unlike heterosexual relationships and marriages, there is only one overriding reason for gay people to be together and marry: love. We don’t get tax breaks, we don’t get public recognition, and we don’t get married just because one partner got pregnant. Sure, there are happy heterosexual unions, but I’ve seen a lot more miserable ones that go on and on because people like you believe that being with someone and making babies is more important than happiness or personal fulfillment.
Of course, you will think I am wrong and will say ad infinitum how wrong I am. Just because you say I’m wrong, or that my life is unnatural does not make it so.
Here is the thing though. You are still putting words in my mouth to justify calling me a bigot. I never said that everyONE shouldn’t be celebrated as a great thing in this world. I think every life should. I said I don’t think everyTHING should be celebrated. I don’t think that homosexuality should be celebrated as a gift to the world. I also never said that my love for my children would be conditional on whether they were gay or not. I specifically said it would not change the fact that I would love them regardless. I also never said I valued my children on there reproductive capabilities. I only said it would be a disappointment. I guess wanting to have children and granchildren is a negative quality in your mind.
I was also never forced into a hegemonic sexual identity. What you are doing here is judging my parents even though you have literally no clue about them.
You said:
“Unlike heterosexual relationships and marriages, there is only one overriding reason for gay people to be together and marry: love.”
I think that there are probably still other reasons besides love, such as money, physical attraction, power, and numerous other wrong reasons to get married.
The whole thing is you are not even really explaining to me why you think my view is wrong. You are making up things about me and telling me that those things are wrong.
What a suprise that you ignored or missed in my posts exactly that which answered your questions. You don’t want to learn or be enlightened, you just want to support your narrow views and have them validated by others who think as you do.
I missed where you answered my questions. I must have been clouded by all the lies you were telling about me. Once again you are presuming things about me. I am obviously not here so that I can state something and then have everyone jump in and defend me and validate my views. In case you haven’t noticed I am standing alone on this one. I am posting on a very liberal board with a high gay population. I don’t think I am trying to get a bunch of people to back me up here.
What I really want to do is explain my point of view that I do have my reasons for my opinions. I am not pulling them out of some Gays are Immoral pamphlet. I actually do believe these things. If I am wrong then maybe I’ll wise up as I get more experience. However, I think I’m reasonable in most of what I say. It seems like you can’t acknowledge my opinions. It also seems to me that you are also not tolerant of my opinions and won’t even discuss them without insulting and making up lies. It seems to me that you are the narrow minded one here.
No, he’s just about spot-on. If you disapprove of, or think less of, someone else simply because they are different from you in some way, then you are a bigot. If you disapprove of (or think less of) someone else for some rationally justified reason (that is, a reason based on positive, rational principles, as opposed to either deviation from normalcy or arbitrary social rules), then you might not be a bigot.
The real problem arises when someone claims a reason based on positive, rational principles that just doesn’t work. In those situations, the rationale is just a smokescreen for bigotry.
Like I said earlier, I don’t think that is what bigotry is. I realize that some people do, however this is what I think it is: Bigotry in my mind is someone who is intolerant. And an intolerant person is someone who can not respect or recognize opinions that are different from their own. Using that definition I don’t think I am bigoted.
However, yes I do think that homosexuality is not natural So I guess I do disaprove or think less of it. My reasons which I think are rational even though I know many people will disagree with me are that they can not have a child together. This is what I said, “I feel that one man and one woman together is the natural relationship. I feel that men and women compliment each other and are better abled to raise children than either two men or two women. I feel that children that are not raised by both a man and a woman are not going to be as well rounded as children that are.” Now I don’t think that these are arbitrary social rules.
Easy, just type the word QUOTE inbetween those straight brackets ** ** without leaving any spaces. Then type the text you want to quote, then type /QUOTE inbetween two brackets again. Make sure you don’t make any spelling mistakes when you do this 'cos it won’t work if you do.
By your own definition you are a bigot. You refuse to recognize opinions that are different than yours. You attempt to redefine bigot so you don’t fall into that catagory, even though your words betray you and make you a bigot.
And you restate your bigotry again.
What I said earlier about your parental units’ programming of you stands. Hegemonic compulsory heterosexuality depends on people living in false conciousness which allows them to think they chose being straight and that they choose to do what they do. That you feel that your purpose in life is to reproduce and that others should do the same is COMPULSORY.
Perhaps you should re-read posts a few times and let them sink in.
The problem is, what are “positive, rational principles that work”, precisely? Some principles may “work” for some people, but not for others. How would you demonstrate the positiveness and rationality behind, say, an aversion to incest or bestiality (and no, I’m not saying that homosexuality is the same thing as sex with dogs)? Webster’s defines bigot as “a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices”. For my part, a person can feel that, for instance, certain sexual practices are “unnatural”, or that miscegenation is undesirable, or any number of other beliefs that might or might not strike a chord with me; and as long as that person is willing to listen to others and discuss things in a reasonable manner, he’s not a bigot. Spur seems to be a reasonable man. I don’t expect everyone (or even most folks on this board) to agree with him, but he presents his view kindly and with an open mind. More so, definitely, than Hastur or zen.