Would you date a guy like the Croc Hunter?

In My Humble Opinion
41

Norrybaby, I missed his appearance on the Panel… I can’t say I would have stayed up to see it had I known he was on!

It seems that Australians are more likely to peg him as dense. I wonder if it’s because of the way he talks? An American is likely to put it down to him being Australian, but an Ozzie is going to know that we don’t all talk like that. He doesn’t look too bright to me either - I don’t see how other people can’t notice that he doesn’t seem to be a smart man? Maybe it’s just me misreading something about him.

I don’t like your tone, Mister. You have a problem with people being terrified of spiders unless it’s a “genuine clinical phobia”? You think I’m spouting off about how people react to my fear without ever experiencing what I’m talking about? Have you noticed that your reaction to my fear of spiders was to stress that it’s probably not poisonous - that is the typical reaction I get. I’m not screaming my lungs out for fear of being bitten, I’m absolutely petrified of spiders and would be even if they weren’t poisonous. I’m making a bunch of rash assumptions about how Steve Irwin would react to me being scared of spiders taking into account

  1. How other people typically react to my fear

  2. That he’s an enviromental kind of guy and likely to want to let the creature live

  3. He wrestles crocodiles and crawls into rattler’s dens - I can’t see him meeting me on common ground at this point. He’s holding the deadliest snake known to mankind, and I’m screaming about the nontoxic spider, I just don’t see how the guy can sympathise!

But for your sake, let me clarify - I do not know Steve Irwin personally and have no idea if he would be sympathetic and understanding towards my fear of spiders. I did not intend to harm his good character by suggesting on a public message board that he may be insensitive to other people’s fears, and I will never indulge in public speculation again.

Happy?

42

Exactly what I was thinking, cazzle.

I think us Aussies hate him, because we cringe, thinking that other nations may think he is representative of Aussies, in general. Also because he is a very stupid, highly annoying twat ! :slight_smile:

43

Aw c’mon Goo, we 'mericans know that Steve-o is not your typical Australian.

That would be Paul Hogan.

44

Ha !

You have a death wish, jckaz !

:smiley:

45

I am not attracted to this man because I think he probably smells bad. He never changes his outfit.

46

Yeah, Steve’s ok. I wouldn’t kick him out of bed or nothing. But for real Animal Planet lust? Jeff Corwin pushes all my buttons. Yum. No dumb accent, an array of different clothings, and less of a “Let’s go get myself killed!” attitude. Too bad he’s married too. :frowning:

47

With all due respect, I think you’re being a tad defensive.

Do I have a problem with a non-phobic fear of spiders? In a sense, yes. That’s not a statement about the character of the fearful person; rather, it’s a statement about the irrationality of this fear.

And why not? After all, it’s a fear without any basis. If someone has a genuine phobia, then that person needs treatment. However, it’s merely intense fear – and not a genuine phobia – then it’s perfectly reasonable for people to point out that this fear is illogical.

Remember, nobody here criticized you for being afraid of spiders. Nobody suggested that you were spineless, or any such thing. Rather, people only pointed out that there’s no good reason to squish these little critters, and that relocating them is always a viable option. What’s so offensive about that?

Once again, I think you’re being awfully defensive here.

Nobody accused you of being a mere coward. Rather, people (myself especially) gently pointed out that there’s no good reason to fear them. If it’s a normal fear (as opposed to a real phobia), then that’s a perfectly reasonable statement to make. You may not like it, but I don’t think it’s fair to jump down people’s throats when they point out the truth.

You yourself admitted that this fear was illogical. If people point this out to you, they’re not being unreasonable – especially if they’re saying this to you for the very first time.

So please, calm down.

Which still makes your conclusion unjustified. It’s one thing to say that Steve would let the spiders live. It’s another thing to claim that he would turn a dear ear to your cries of fear. The first is a reasonable conclusion; the second is unwarranted.

Much better. That was, after all, the gist of my complaint. We simply don’t have nearly enough reason to conclude that he would react they way you described.

48

I believe that we learn our fears at a very early age, when learning is very intense and difficult to unlearn. Just the fact that a fear is not a phobia does not mean there is not a good reason behind it, and I also believe that all fears have a kind of logic behind them.

I was lucky enough to come from a family that loved and enjoyed all kinds of animals. My mother had a phobia of earthworms, but she was very careful not to pass this on to us. Kids sometimes seem to learn their fears from their parents, which also is based in a kind of logic.

It is true that most spiders in the United States are not harmful to humans. That is a good reason not to fear them, but not all fears are based in facts.

Back to the topic: I think Steve Irwin does us a service by showing his passion for animals of all kinds. He is always careful to tell people the “I’m a professional; don’t try this at home” type of statement. It may be true that he would probably not ever be a MENSA member, but then, I don’t think that would interest him anyway.

49

Trust me. Whatever negative impression Steve Irwin and Paul Hogan may give of Aussies, Patrick Rafter instantly dispels it.

50

The Kratt brothers aren’t bad.

51

I have to disagree with that. For example, an acquaintance of mine is deathly afraid of grasshoppers. Why? No good reason; it’s just that she’s afraid of them.

You’re correct to point out that many fears are learned at a early age. However, this merely means that unlearning them can be very difficult. It still doesn’t mean that there’s a good reason for that fear.

Do all fears have “a kind of logic behind them”? I think that depends on what you mean. Certainly there’s a reason why our fears are formed; however, this doesn’t mean that our fears are justified, or are based in any real logic.

At any rate, nobody was condemning cazzle for her fear of spiders. Rather, upon learning of her fears, some people chose to point out that it’s not necessary to fear them, and that relocating the spiders is a sound alternative to squishing them.

I think that’s a very reasonable response. If someone is fearful, one of the kindest things we can do is to point out reasons why this fear is unnecessary. Such gentle pleadings might not be welcome, but the best way to overcome fear is through information and education.

52

Just because she doesn’t know the reason, does not mean there is no good reason. An explanation (from the “Phobias Cured” site) of how fear and phobias work contains this quote:

As for this:

I think we are actually disagreeing about the meaning of “a good reason.” Maybe this would be cleared up by saying that there is a definite reason that fears occur rather than saying good reason or bad reason.

And that is why I said “a kind of logic” rather than wording it a different way.

That is definitely a strategy, and can work in some cases. I was terrified of spiders as a child, but as I learned more about them and saw their beauty, I slowly changed from fear to admiration. This worked for me, but that doesn’t mean it will work for everyone.

That will work if the fear is rooted in a lack of information about the feared object or animal, and not if it a phobia or deep fear. While education is a part of phobia treatment, there are other therapies available.

53

Wow. What a hijack. For the record, I wasn’t afraid of spiders as a child, or as a teen. I became deathly afraid of spiders when I got sick, and my fear becomes more intense when I’m under stress. I get fed up with people telling me that spiders won’t hurt me because I hear it every time I discuss this. Somehow people seem to overlook the fact that I already know my fear is irrational - a stranger telling me the spider isn’t going to hurt me is not going to cure my fears, but after the 50th time, it’s going to start to annoy me just a little. I’m not afraid of the spider so much as I’m afraid of the legs on the spider. If a spider isn’t moving (and I’m some distance away), I can manage to function if I force myself to look away from it and think happy thoughts, but as soon as one of those legs moves, I’m on the ground trying not to vomit.

You think I overreacted to you telling me there’s nothing to be afraid of. You don’t realise I’ve heard this a thousand times before, and that rather than being constructive advice, it feels like I’m being criticized for something that I can’t help or control. I also object to your statement:

because I feel it suggests that people with intense fears aren’t entitled to them unless they have a “genuine clinical phobia”. You don’t just “get over” fears, and rationalising them out doesn’t do much good, because the majority of people already know that their fears are irrational. When you instinctively react to something with fear and panic, it’s not helpful to have the people around you making statements that you feel are belittling something that is quite intense to you.

And for the record, I’m not afraid of snakes or bugs or lizards or mice, just spiders. There was this one time a friend’s friend was laughing at me and making fun of me for being so afraid of the large hunstman that was in the house, but I got the last laugh when that 6’3" police officer in question ran out the door screaming after spotting a mouse in the kitchen.

54

In which case, I would urge you to remember that people on the 'net don’t know this. They don’t know that you’ve heard this many times before, and so it’s perfectly reasonable for them to point this out.

If you had gently said, “I know this fear is irrational, and I’ve heard it many times before, but I’m still afraid” then people would doubtlessly treat you differently. We simply can’t assume that people know what you’re thinking.

Nobody said – or even suggested – that you should just “get over it.” Rather, people (myself especially) took pains to point out that there’s no logical foundation for this fear. That’s a far, far cry from saying, “Get over it!”

Now if you do have a genuine phobia, and if you do mention this up front, then you might expect people to explain things differently to you. However, if you don’t explain these things up front, then it’s perfectly normal for people to point out that your fears are ultimately unnecessary.

55

I guess we’d disagree on what constitutes a “good reason.” I would consider a good reason to be something that’s rooted in logic and correct information. There may be other reasons behind a fear, but IMO that doesn’t make them “good” reasons.

I surmise from the rest of your posting, however, that we’d consider this to be a matter of semantics. FWIW, I’d be willing to substitute the words “logical” or “rational” for the word “good.”

Well, I think we’d all agree on that. After all, nobody said that correct information must be the cure to cazzle’s fear. Rather, people only pointed out that this fear really isn’t necessary, and graciously explained why.

56

So you jumped to the conclusion that I don’t have a genuine phobia because I didn’t expressly say so, you jumped to the conclusion that no one would ever have told me that some spiders aren’t poisonous, you jumped to the conclusion that I was saying he was dense for not fearing spiders, you jumped to the conclusion that I think he’s dense because he’s foolhardy - which isn’t my reason at all, you jump to the conclusion that there’s no good reason to have a non-phobic fear of spiders, you jumped to the conclusion that I thought you were calling me a coward when I didn’t, you jumped to the conclusion that I would know nothing at all about spiders and would fear them through ignorance, and you chastised me for jumping to the conclusion that Steve Irwin would rather relocate a spider than kill it.

57

cazzle, I think you’re being unreasonable again.

It doesn’t sound like anyone “jumped” to that conclusion. Rather, it’s a perfectly natural assumption. If someone says that they’re afraid of heights, people wouldn’t normally think that this person might have a phobia. In other words, people are often apt to make the natural assumption that it’s just a regular fear (albeit intense), rather than assume it to be a true phobia. (Cases of true phobia are, after all, very uncommon.)

This happens all the time, and it’s perfectly normal. People, even intelligent and well-meaning people, are going to make natural assumptions.

It doesn’t sound to me like anyone made that assumption. Rather, people are likely to emphasize this point, even as they recognize that you may have heard this before. In fact for some people, the truth doesn’t sink in until they’ve heard it multiple times already. Just ask any professional counselor.

With all due respect, given your earlier phrasing, I think this was also a natural conclusion to draw. After all, your diatribe suddenly jumped from comments about Steve Irwin’s alleged “denseness” to a sizeable rant about his regard for spiders. It even ended with the (unwarranted, IMHO) conclusion that he would obviously be unsympathetic to your fears. Again, given the “flow” of your posting, I think a good number of people would draw similar inferences.

Well, since you didn’t state (or hint at) your reasons for thinking him dense, I think it’s only reasonable for people to draw inferences based on what you actually commented on – namely, his perceived attitude toward spiders – or on the well-known aspects of his public persona.

In fact, look at the other entries in this thread. The other posters who also said Steve Irwin was “dense” or “stupid” made this comment in light of his dangerous antics.

It’s not jumping to a conclusion; rather, it’s simple logic. The overwhelming majority of spiders are not to be feared, and relocating them is a simple matter. If by “good reason” we mean a rationale cause for fear, then there’s certainly no “good” reason to fear them.

Once again though, the emphasis was that nobody was attempting to attack your character. The criticisms were leveled against the need for fear, rather than the fearful person. Since fear of spiders was the burning issue, its

Obviously not true, for reasons already discussed. In fact, JTC’s earlier verbiage included the question, “Well, are you aware that the odds of this spider returning to your home are miniscule – especially if the man places it several meters away from your home?” Obviously, this is not the same as assuming that you are being ignorant.

And even if it did, this isn’t the same as assuming you know “nothing” about spiders. Let’s not cloud the issue that way.

58

cazzle, I think there’s an important distinction between making natural inferences and “jumping to conclusions.”

If I say that I have a flat tire, people will naturally assume that I’m referring to one of the four tires mounted on my car. They are not likely to think, “Gee, maybe he means his flat tire.” Also, if I say that I’m going to Paris, most people would naturally (and reasonably) infer that I mean Paris, France and not Paris, Texas.

Similarly, if someone says that Steve Irwin seems dense, and then immediately launches a complaint about Steve’s attitude toward spiders, people will naturally infer that this perceived denseness is due to Steve’s treatment of spiders. Is it airtight logic? No, but it’s the normal, natural and reasonable inference to draw.

In contrast, it’s unreasonable to conclude that the Croc Hunter would callously refuse to kill a spider despite a fearful woman’s impassioned pleas. In this case, it’s a clearly unwarranted conclusion, one that requires a leap of logic. That’s why it’s called jumping to a conclusion – as opposed to, say, making a mere misstep.
If you have a true phobia, I think it’s helpful to state this up front. Like it or not, people aren’t likely to assume that it’s just a normal fear – especially since fear of spiders is pervasively common. I suspect that most people wouldn’t even think that you may have a real phobia.

I have a suggestion. The next time someone points out that spiders are typically harmless, you can say “I know, I know, but I’ve been diagnosed as having arachnophobia.” I think you’ll find that they’ll respond to you very differently. (If it’s the first time this person has pointed it out to you, then they certainly deserve that consideration.)

Note that I used the word “diagnosed”; after all, only a trained professional can determine if it’s a true phobia. Even if no diagnosis has been made though, you can always say, “I know, but despite this knowledge, and despite my very best efforts, I’m still deathly afraid of them. I think I may even have a phobia.” I can almost guarantee that people will treat you very differently, if they know that you’re not just speaking from ignorance.

Like it or not, people are going to continue pointing out that spiders are almost invariably harmless. Once again, this is perfectly reasonable. They’ll do this because fears are often the result of misinformation. Combatting misinformation should, after all, be the first step in overcoming fear – and if the fear isn’t based on misperception, then other approaches would be appropriate.

59

BTW, here’s a concrete example. My own sainted mother has an intense fear of snakes. Even though she’s been told that the vast majority of snakes are non-venomous, she has yet to believe this in her heart. She’s an intelligent, college-educated woman, and she comes from a family with a high aptitude for science. Still, she’s never come around to the belief that most snakes are not venomous.

In fact, when I started keeping snakes as pets, she asked, “How do you know they’re not venomous? How do you know this? How can you ever know this for sure?” So even though she’s seen countless books and TV shows which present the truth, the truth has never sunk in for her.

I’m sure that’s one reason why people point out that spiders are generally harmless. They know that the listener may have heard this before, but the listener may still be coming around to that view. In such cases, a calm response like “I know, but I’ve heard this many times before and I’m still afraid” is certainly appropriate.

60

Glad to see those of us from this southern land are in agreeance. I’d just like to bring the discussion back to what an annoying fuckwit he is, and to remove it from some kind of beat up on cazzle 'cos she hates spiders. The Croc Hunter, what a complete dork, jumping around like a lunatic, and I think honestly, setting an exceptionally bad example for the kids who watch his shows. For example, I tell my kids if they see a spider, snake etc just to walk away calmly and come and tell me about it. If they jumped about going “CRIKEY” and trying to pick it up, the poor little bastards would be dead before they were 20.

Now Jubilationetcetc:

and:

I think that these two quotes demonstrate the basic problem here. You have an intolerance and lack of respect for cazzles’s position. Pontificate about it all you want, but that’s a fact, and this:

is inflammatory whether you are prepared to admit it or not.
While you like Irwin, I think he’s a mindless blathering moron.
Some of us like spiders, while others have a morbid fear of them.

Such is life, deal with it.