Who says Aragorn was never tempted? That’s precisely why he agreed that Frodo had to continue to Mordor on his own: he could feel the Ring’s pull, and knew that if he stayed with Frodo, he’d end up betraying him. I think that Faramir’s temptation was one of the best changes in the movies, because it re-enforces how dangerous the Ring really is: no body, not Gandalf, not Aragorn, not Galadriel, is immune to its lure.
Hey, now, Eowyn is pretty good looking and gets more screen time in the last two movies than Arwen.
Though I actually think that the expanded role for Arwen helps some. It does help to flesh out Aragorn, and there’s sort of, in my opinion, a feeling of “who is this Arwen person?” when they marry in whatever chapter it is in the book (8?).
This was already addressed by Miller, but I’ll elaborate a little more. In the extended edition commentary, Jackson, Walsh and Boyens describe their reasoning very clearly. I also did not like this change - initially - but now I completely agree with them.
It would not have been good to keep it as written in the book. Picture it: you’ve just spent the last four and half hours (FOTR and first half of TTT) explaining how horrendous and manipulative the ring is. It is the source of tremendous evil, that no one can withstand without being corrupted by it (including Aragorn, and even more importantly Gandalf). It has turn Smeagol into a destroyed creature over the course of 500 years. It is slowly destroying Frodo’s mind and spirit. Now here’s Faramir - a new character who’s seeing the ring for the first time. In the book he says something like he “wouldn’t pick it up, even if it lay by the wayside.” Now you’ve completely destroyed the power of the ring. All momentum is gone and the tension is incredibly diminished.
I think this was one of the best decisions the screenwriters made.
Actually, Nazgul can’t see. They mostly rely on their steeds (horses or fell beast for sight. Remember in the FOTR with the scene by the side of the road in the Shire - the Nazgul is sniffing and smelling, not looking for the hobbits.
In the scene in the movie, the fell beast is drawn towards Frodo - but this needn’t be because of the ring - it could just be because he’s a solitary figure standing out in the open on top of a building. Also, in the commentary the writers talk about how this is basically the essence of a scene in the book set at Minas Morgul - when Frodo has the ring in sight of the Nazgul (IIRC).
Of all the changes in the movies so far, none particularly bother me. They are all either excellent (Faramir not immediately rejecting the ring, cutting Bombadil), good enough (Aragorn falling in the Warg battle, elves at Helms’ Deep), or not really important one way or another (Aragorn saying farewell to Frodo at Amon Sul, instead of wondering where he went went the Fellowship split).
I think that expanding Arwen’s role has worked well. The majority of the material is taken right from the Appendices, or taken from throwaway characters like Glorfindel. You can’t really have too many big characters, or people get confused. But thank god they didn’t stay with their original idea to have Arwen at Helm’s Deep. Although that was apparently just a holdover from the Miramax-two-movie days when they hadn’t to condense everything as much as possible.
I had to laugh when I heard some people speculate before FOTR came out that they increased Arwen’s role to attract more female moviegoers. BWAHAHAHA! Like having so much hottie goodness isn’t more than enough to do that. Let’s see… we have four cute hobbits, Aragorn, Boromir, Elrond, Gandalf, Legolas, Haldir, Eomer, Theoden, Faramir. My GOD. This is the best chick-flick ever. (At least, it’s my kind of chick flick.
The only change that I’ve heard of in ROTK that i’m SURE will bother me (I haven’t seen it yet, but I’ve read several spoiler articles) is: That they make Arwen’s fate tied to the victory - she gives up her immortality, and unless Aragorn wins, she will die immediately. I think this is ridiculous and completely unnecessary. I can’t think of any reason to merit this change. What, saving the world from absolute evil isn’t enough motivation for Aragorn? I’ll just have to stick my fingers in my ears and close my eyes during that part - or run to the bathroom.
elves are the best. they should be added any time and in any place.
Best damned thing I’ve read or heard in a month. Thanks for the laugh, neofishboy.
(with thoughts of evil cookies…)
And I’m giving Polycarp a standing O.
the movie was BASED on a Book.
Ok now that said, yes I would put the Elves in Helms Deep, Why? Because Jackons cant possibly show the wars that Lothlorien & Rivendell fought at te time of the Ring being destroyed, so therefore what other was is there to put in that the Elves were involved also.
In fact, I would have done that for free…
Waenara, hope I spelled that right, Arwens fate being tied to the ring, personally, as Ive said before, this is only my small humble opinion, I think the idea of her death should Sauron regain power is to portray the fact that all things pure & good & lovely will die out from middle Earth under his reign.
I agree with Delly; note that this is a minor spoiler for the movie.
At first, Elrond’s comment really confused me: why was her fate tied to the ring, and which way was it tied? Did he mean that as the ring went, so would she? If the ring were destroyed, she’d die? Only after the movie was over did I think about it again and realize that, by deciding not to leave Middle Earth, Arwen had thereby tied her fate to the fate of all mortals, and all mortal fates were now tied to the ring: if Sauron regained it, they’d all be in a world of teh suck.
Daniel
I think the elves were added to Helm’s Deep just for the sake of a heroic death (Haldir) – whatever, I think the elves were damn cool. Tolkien purists need to lighten up.
And Faramir’s motivations vis-à-vis the Ring are made much more clear in the extended edition of TTT – basically, he’s trying to impress his daddy.
Yeah, I get that Faramir is trying to impress his old man, he pretty much says so, but I still don’t like the changes. Though with the discussion here, I think I understand them now. The explaination above by Waenara makes me see the reason that Jackson and Walsh, etc chose to make the changes to Faramir. However, in the books I think that is one of the things that makes him so cool. He is able to puzzle out what is going on and make a decision for the good of Man, even though he knows Dad won’t be pleased.
Giving Arwen everything done by other random evles in the books is a GREAT change. Tolkein himself should have done it. I remember the first time I read the books, and Aragorn ends up marrying some unknown elf princess at the end. I didn’t even remember Arwen from her brief appearance in FOTR at Rivendell. Unless Arwen is a real character, the story of Aragorn and Arwen is meaningless. So stick every bit of the appendix that you can into the main story, give her Glorfindel’s part, anything you can. It MAKES THE STORY BETTER. Really, it does.
And of course Bombadil has to go, he doesn’t make sense unless you are putting out a 40 hour miniseries. When you count the EEs, the whole trilogy is already more than 12 hours long. And there are dozens of things I’d add back in first, given unlimited screen time, such as more of Bill the pony’s story. Come on, admit it, you’d rather have more of Bill than Tom. And yes, the scouring of the shire is a big problem, since you have to end the movie within 20 minutes of the ring going into the Cracks of Doom. Yes, it is a great part of the book, mirroring the larger struggle, showing the particularity of evil (trees being destroyed vs. THAT tree, right over there being destroyed), reinforcing that all evil wasn’t destroyed, constant vigilance, etc etc. But it is an anticlimax. Books can deal with that much more easily than movies. You can’t go from hundreds of thousands of orcs marching and mountains exploding and dark towers crumbling to a couple of thugs getting shot by hobbits.
That said, I have a few objections to the movies. I don’t like how they handle Gandalf and Galadriel and others “revealing their true power”. I’d go much more subtle. Camera angles and Acting. And I’d make the Ring Tempting scenes more subtle too. Frodo shouldn’t go into a trance, like he doesn’t know what he’s doing when he is tempted to use the ring. It weakens the idea of temptation. Frodo should be CONSCIOUSLY tempted to use the ring, not stoned out of his gourd. I didn’t like the overt possession of Theoden by Saruman. What was up with putting old-guy makeup on him? Theoden is weakened because he thinks he is weakened, from listening to bad counsel and despairing, not because of some evil spell. Gandalf doesn’t exoricise him, he kicks him in the ass and tells him to stop feeling sorry for himself and fight. And I wouldn’t have had cavalry charging emplaced pikeorcs, no matter that the sun came up and demoralized them. And having Merry and Pippen trick the Ents into finding out about Isengard was lame.
But all in all, the movies are great. Really good. The best possible Tolkein movies of any concievable universe of Tolkein movies.
I agree that changing Faramir was wrong. I always viewed him as proving that there was something worthy about the remaining race of men. That they were worth all the pain of the war and sacrifice required to save them from Sauron. Without that we’re just left with the realization that…you know…men suck. Sure, nice and uplifting. Let me go send $100 to the ‘Sauron for President’ campaign.
And Haldir’s death at Helm’s Deep I found really moving. I saw him getting it and the faraway look in his eyes and I thought I could hear him thinking, “5000 years…and it’s come to this…5000 years of life…I don’t want to die.”
That tore me up.
Hello? Eowyn? Chopped liver?
I much preferred Eowyn in the movies over Miss Pouty Lips anyways…
Hello? Eowyn? Didn’t show up till the SECOND movie…
Yes, but she was worth it… 
It is impossible for almost any book to be put verbatim into film because writing and filmng are different forms of expressing.
What they put or cut out really doesn’t bother me much (although the scene where Galadriel gives Gimli three strands of hair would’ve been nice if only to see Celeborn’s jealous eyes).
Although Liv Tyler (who proounces S very sensously) is prettier than Miranda Otto, I have to say that Éowyn in armour was incredibly sexy and much sexier than anything Arwen can pull off.
I’m getting my wife some plate-armour and chain mail right now.
Will they ever do the Silmarillion?
It was funny, but I can’t say I laughed. I started to laugh hilariously, but a second laugh came up two quick and they both got caught in my windpipe at the same time.
Damn near killed me!
Tom Bombadil: Hello, little friends!
Frodo: No time for you, weirdo.
Tom Bombadil: (disappears)
---------from the Extra Extended Extended Edition: Lord Of The Rings: The Fifteen DVD Set With Yet More Footage, due out for Christmas, 2005
Hey!! :mad: What am I, chopped liver?!?
Though I do plan, if elected, to get his advice and Aries28’s on how to deal with the Sufferin’ Baptists! ;)On a more serious note, though, I agree with what you say, both about Faramir and about Haldir.
Master Wang-Ka, that was terrific.