Uh…somehow I don’t think some junior college is going to give a hot damn about your one to five hundred dollars a semester.
Maybe if it has a student body of three and a faculty/administration of one.
He should totally apologize.
But speaking for myself, I couldn’t write a three-page apology if you paid me.
“Dear <professor’s name>. On <date> at <place> I recorded you saying something I disagreed with, and made that public. I now realize that this was against college rules, wrong, and has caused you a lot of grief. I was completely wrong to put you in that position, I apologize, and commit to not doing it again. Sincerely, <Student>”
How is that not an adequate apology?
If I were the professor I’d much rather read something like the above than three pages of drivel and probably flat out lies ghost-written by his mother about how sorry he (doesn’t) feel.
Maybe that’s why I’m a CS grad…
Why?
What was the professor afraid of?
If she is proud of what she is saying in class why wouldnt she want others to hear it?
I mean isnt the role of a “teacher” to give out knowledge?
You say you want your classroom to be an exchange of ideas. Well only hers are on display here.
Good grief she called the president a white supremacist and his election an “act of terrorism”. Since the student was a Trump supporter really she is calling HIM a “terrorist”.
Are you ok with that?
Then you obviously are careful of what you say and you dont go off on some rant where you call the president a white supremacist and his election an act of terrorism.
Also you dont see it in the video but she also was pointing out all the students who were Trump supporters and making them feel like they were the new enemy.
You might be on to something.
What I could go along with is something like say a joint news conference where BOTH the professor and the student apologize and admit BOTH were wrong.
But it seems like the professor has now “won” and proved she can say or do anything she damn well pleases and her fellow teachers, her union, and the school president are going to back her up PLUS she gets the joy of playing the poor helpless victim here (meaning she felt threatened after received some threatening emails), it aint going to happen.
You answer this later yourself, but in this instance, death threats seem to be something to be afraid of.
Thus the danger of select videos. An exchange of ideas generally has one person displaying theirs, then another person. Do you have any reason at all to think that she didn’t allow others to offer their ideas?
Again: cite? How do you know she was pointing students out?
Well, yes. She CAN say anything she damn well pleases. That’s how free speech works. Professorial free speech deserves a high level of protection, as long as it’s not singling out individual students to belittle (evidence of that would be much more problematic).
As for playing the victim, because she felt threatened, because people sent her death threats…and? That’s how being the victim of death threats works. This is also where you answered your previous question of “what was she afraid of?”
Here’s how it worked:
- Prof was super-upset over the US electing a sociopathic molesting racist as POTUS. She ranted in a way that was probably unwise, although protected speech.
- A student disagreed with her and wanted to enforce some sort of politically-correct speech code on his professors, so he filming her with the intent of assaulting her free speech rights by getting her in trouble with her bosses.
- When that didn’t work, he kept trying to get her in trouble, by releasing his footage publicly.
- A bunch of even bigger assholes started sending her death threats, which was TOTALLY UNPREDICTABLE for anyone who’s never been on the Internet.
- When the university investigated the whole shitshow, they realized that he’d broken the rules but she hadn’t, so he’s the one that got in trouble.
Where is my summary wrong?
Plus wide borders, triple space, indent like crazy for new paragraphs, bibliography, dedication page, and footnotes. Lots of footnotes.
Demanding a letter of apology seems reasonable, given the student knowingly broke the rules. Demanding a three page letter of apology seems unreasonable, and has a touch of “Know your place, you”, about it. He should tell them to piss off and find a new university.
Where’s the upvote button?
The three pages are a futile attempt to get the student to put a lot of thought into the apology, and theoretically realize how wrong he was, whether he was or not.
I wouldn’t have been recording it, I’m a habitual note-taker. But you can bet I’d be talking about it all over campus. That, too, is legally-protected free speech. (Nevermind that I agree with her…abuse of power is abuse of power.)
I also participated in the other thread, and as I said in the other thread, I consider the teacher to have done wrong, and the student not to have. And therefore, I do not believe it appropriate for the student to apologize.
And yes, I do know the political positions involved, and I myself also oppose Trump. Which does not change my answer.
Actually, it happens fairly often. See, for example, the ACLU defending the right of neo-Nazis to demonstrate peacefully.
Last night after I read your post I was feeling hungry, so I went to Unca’s, a local restaurant, to grab a bite.
My waiter brought me the menu. Not for me to choose–he’d already chosen my meal for me–but to show me what I was required to eat during my meal.
The meal consisted of a lot of different foods I would never choose on my own, several of which I’d never even heard of. Some of the foods I thought were delicious. One of them I disliked, but my waiter reminded me that I was required to eat it whether or not I liked it, because the meal as a whole was a nutritious meal, and I’d decided to come to a restaurant, after all.
While I ate, the waiter hung around and watched me eat. He gave me feedback on how I was eating the meal, making sure I was consuming everything in a reasonable fashion.
At the end, because I’d eaten everything, I got a Clean Plate Club certificate.
Why did I put up with such nonsense, you ask, from the people I was paying? Simple: in addition to wanting the food, I really needed that certificate. Where I’m from, if you want a good job, you have to be able to prove to employers that not only are you well-fed and adequately nourished for the work ahead, but that you have the stamina and open mind to consume a variety of different foods. So important is this to prospective employers that restaurants can lose their food license if they don’t monitor patrons’ eating habits adequately.
To make a long story short, I think your analogy between professors and waiters is spot-on!
Hatchet jobs by conservative activists quoting her out of context and otherwise editing the recording in a deceptive manner is a very valid reason for a professor not to want their lectures recorded.
It’s hard to say if I would have written the letter or not, given that I wouldn’t have recorded in the first place. If I were the sort of person who would record their professor in order to post it on social media and try to get them into trouble because I am unable to deal with the words that they say, then i am probably and entitled ass who needs a time out and a blankie, not a college education, so I would instead retreat to my safe place where no one can say anything that I may disagree with, writing the letter to stay in the mean place where people say things that I disagree with and upset me would be counterproductive.
In the case that I could see, where maybe I recorded my professor for my personal academic use, and a roommate or other acquaintance got ahold of it and put it on social media, causing my professor to get death threats, absolutely. If that was all they wanted for the disruption to everyone’s learning environment that I caused, I would feel I was getting off damn easy, and would probably try to do something more to make up for my actions and the harm they caused.
Yes, she did single out students. Students who had voted for Trump. When she calls his election an “act of terrorism” isnt she saying those that elected him are terrorists?
Put yourself in the students shoes. After hearing what she said and knowing she knows your a Trump supporter, do you honestly think she would give you a fair grade?
Be honest.
And lets say you did just go to the dean. Without proof how can they be sure you didnt just make it up? If the dean investigates the professor (well actually her union) will deny everything and make counter accusations.
As for free speech, she can shoot her big fat mouth off about whatever she wants to BUT, there is a time and a place for that. She is supposed to be a professional hired to do a job. You just dont call the lawfully elected president a white supremacist and a terrorist while you are standing in front of a classroom full of students.
Well I think the problem was the student did try to take this to the administration but they felt the administrators were not doing anything so they went public.
Maybe this whole incident could have been avoided if there was a clear process for how students could report bad behavior by professors and the process would have some sort of transparency so the student would know their complaint was heard, investigated, and dealt with. Schools already have these “student court” type arrangements where students can air a grief to a group of selected students and faculty and at least they know somebody heard them.
No. It is quite a stretch to make that connection. Someone would have to be both pretty delicate and looking to be offended to take it that way. At the very most, I could see someone taking it as they are aiding or enabling terrorists, but not only is that not the same thing as you are claiming, but it also is something that is more or less true.
I see no reason why not. I went to college in the early 2000’s during Bush’s Iraq war. I had several professors who were very ‘patriotic’, and had quite a bit to say about anyone who did not support the war. I disagreed with them, openly. We had some interesting if heated discussions, in some of which I was actually called a traitor to my country for not being for the war in Iraq.
I got a fair grade.
Or the professor may be honest and forthright about what happened in the classroom, as she broke no rules. The student may have used this as a learning opportunity, to learn to deal with people who do not agree with you.
Instead, after creating all kinds of stupid controversy that all stems from the fact that he doesn’t understand how to act like an adult, and now he is suing.
Why do you feel you have the right to dictate what can and cannot be said in a classroom?
You are correct, he whined to the admin that the professor was hurting his feelings, and since they didn’t immediately cave into him and follow his advice on future curricula for their professors, he went and whined on social media.
There is. He used them. When he went through the process, and didn’t get the results that he wanted, he instead went to social media to get other people to put pressure on the school to silence their staff of any speech that might upset some conservatives.
Absolutely. Most academic professionals put their personal feelings about individual students aside all the time and perform their jobs. Chances are until little Trumpy snowflake started acting like ass, she didn’t even know his name.
You have obviously never taken many college level courses.
Plenty of colleges do have just such a process and this Trump snowflake would have been laughed out of the room if he went whining to review board or student court about this.