So was it so unreasonable for a college student to expect to see some kind of action when other college students expect their grievances to be heard?
Reading the story it seems the student did try to go to the administration but felt like nothing was being done so thats why he posted it.
Others on this board who work in academia say student complaints against professors are a slow process and are private so a student really doesnt know if their complaint goes anywhere.
PS. Sorry the link wasnt working. HERE is a better link.
Going along with this discussion I’d like to share 2 news articles that discuss some after effects:
This onetitled ‘They’re crucifying this poor guy’: Suspended OCC student receives support from across the country"
It discusses the case where the student is getting loads of support from across the country. One person says "“Mr. O’Neil is the Edward Snowden of the college system and kudos to him for exposing this kind of leftist hyperbole…”
2.This one titled “Can students record a teacher, as a study tool or to ward off politics?” said the college after the student returned from winter break, put up prominent signs everywhere spelling out the schools policy to NOT allow recording. It also says even the teachers who before had allowed or even encouraged recording, now do not.
Urbanredneck–sometimes class discussions get really intimate and personal. Let’s say a student was telling a story about a time they were sexually assaulted, and another student recorded and posted that. Then, in response, the internet does what it does in these cases–the student who talked about being sexually assaulted would get death threats and rape threats and be called all sorts of horrible names.
If, in that case, the school punished the student for making a recording against school policy, would you have a problem with it?
…Right. The thing is, he wasn’t entitled to have anything done about it. His professor broke no code of professional ethics for professors, despite what many on the right wish.
If you believe academic free speech should be censored in the professional classroom, where all students are grown-ass adults, this is certainly a case you can make. The case for such draconian political correctness should happen through the legislature and courts: you can’t insist that a nonexistent ethical rule be enforced on a professor.
That’s what the kid wanted: “My professor didn’t break any rules, but I think what she did should be against the rules, so I broke the rules to tell on her! Why am I getting punished instead of her?”
This is complete nonsense. It’s unethical to use your position to lecture paying students on off-topic subjects.
The professor is free to throw political tantrums outside the classroom. That’s the free part of it. Taking it to the classroom is an abuse of power and it’s at the expense of the student.
That the school has “rules” about recording professors abusing their students is meaningless. If I was the student I tell the Dean that I have a right to the education I paid for and I"m not there for political abuse by ANYONE. I would demand an apology from the school, the professor and anyone else that doesn’t want hordes of people protesting on campus. They can stand back and crowdfunded PR campaign aimed at the school’s fundraising.
BUT, that wasnt the case. Their was no discussion. Your example is totally different.
The professor was upset the Hillary lost and had it in her head that we had just elected some evil dictator so she used, no abused, her position of authority by going on a rant which made the student feel afraid she would go after him. Professors have been known to abuse power before and students know it. I see no reason she should not have been held accountable.
I see no wrong in trying to hold a professor accountable. They are not perfect. In college we protested things like test questions and many times got questions removed. We also held professors accountable when what was taught in class wasnt what was on the tests. We even went after professors who didnt grade fairly.
Remember also this is a community college and her salary is paid by the taxpayers.
How do you write the policy to protect students? If recording is permitted, it will have a chilling effect on a student’s ability to express themselves. As a student, I always felt like class was at least semi-private.
So…your post is your cite? The ethical code is the one you just invented on the spot?
Either you’re a bit unclear on what a code of ethics is, or you’ve sent copies of it to this professor prior to her outburst, and her school signed off on it, and you left out that bit of the story.
Yes, I know who pays her salary. That’s a very silly comment. We taxpayers have for decades set up academia as laboratories for ideas, in part by insulating professors from the pressures of political correctness. We recognize that if professors are always looking over their shoulders to see how they’ll be punished for expressing ideas, our nation’s intellectual progress will be stymied.
If you think that stultification is worth it so that adults don’t have to listen to uncomfortable opinions, make your case. I think it’s not worth it.
Holding professors accountable for academic malfeasance is not what’s going on here.
First part of the quote: if she’s putting forth the truth as best she understands it, she’s not out of line.
Second part of the quote: if she singled students out or harassed them, she was totally out of line, as I said before.
Third part of the quote: other professors, including those in administrative positions, must give high deference to academic freedom.
Fourth part of the quote: if she made it look like she was speaking for the college, she was out of line.
The evidence I’ve seen does not suggest she was out of line. If she did harass students (there are conflicting accounts, and I’ve seen no reason to privilege one about the other), that’s not at all okay. I reserve judgment on that particular issue.
As an Engineering professor (NOT full-time faculty, however) I’m appalled by some of the attitudes in this thread. It reads as “The professor serves us! We’re their boss! We pay their salary! They can never drift off-topic or editorialize on something not in the syllabus!”
We’re human too, you know. Try switching to distance learning if you want to reduce or eliminate the human factors of being an adult in higher education.
I do think the professor in this example was being a boor. If I’d seen her to it, as a peer I would have said “good grief, save it for Facebook.” But there’s nothing in the very extensive academic guidelines I was trained in for my job, nor the online handbook at my University, that would have resulted in any violation if that professor worked here.
Ah, so there is no code of ethics in play here. As I thought. You appear to be unclear on what a code of ethics is.
Sure. And there’s a legitimate case that such laws should be unconstitutional. If he wants to make that case, I find it an interesting discussion.
But I’m not clear how much he is making that constitutional case here. And I’m far from convinced that the differences between the two (cops are generally operating in public, not in private, when they might be recorded; cops generally lack copyright to their arrest performances; etc.) are so trivial that they can be ignored.
If I hired an engineer to advise on a project and they proceeded to rant about some political bullshit I’d fire them.
Students aren’t rant fodder for unrelated bullshit.
When I was in college we had a non-tenured professor cop an attitude in class. He didn’t break any specific rules. But we went to the Dean and expressed our opinion. They replaced the professor.
No they don’t. They work for, as previously pointed out, the taxpayers (or, more accurately, the voters). If they worked for the students, students would have a right to demand high grades in the class. Instead, they work for me, and for you, regardless of whether you take a class with them, because we citizens have an interest in having institutions that both offer clear courses of education also evaluate students to see how much they’ve learned.
No, they most certainly do not. Saying it over and over again won’t make it true. Your anecdote, aside from being remarkably vague, is still anecdotal.