I just have to ask: “proof” of what, and for what purpose? AFAICT, the student surreptitiously (and apparently illegally) recorded something for the purpose of getting a yuk out of it on social media and/or causing trouble for someone whose political opinions angered him. That’s usually called “being a jerk.” I might have a different or stronger opinion if there were more details, but in general, I feel jerks should apologize and quit being jerks.
Kind of off topic, but education at a university level is about more than just getting a job, just like life itself is about more than just being employed. A university isn’t a trade school, even though too many mistakenly think it is.
It didn’t offend. I went to the above mentioned Orange Coast College and UCLA and none of my Profs were Ann Coulter/Michael Moore types. We did have vigorous debates about ideas however.
Two different topics. I was responding to the off-topic discussion with octopus saying he had been an engineering major, and the discussion about social science and humanities requirements for a degree. Sounded like a university to me. It was a digression from the OP. If universities start getting treated like trade schools there’s going to be even more rampant ignorance in our democracies than there already is.
Well first, isnt it odd that you and others are basically saying the only “proof” you will recognize is from a recording YET at the same time you say recording was wrong?
The student said he didnt start recording right away so any singling out was not recorded.
I cannot see how any investigator could possibly get to the truth with interviews alone especially after seeing how this hit social media.
First of all, the apology letter and the essay are two different things here. There are no parameters for the apology other than “a letter of apology addressed to [the professor] for violating the terms of the syllabus.”
-Why did you break the rule?
-Thoughts and analysis on why you shared the videos and what you expected to happen to the professor.
-Thoughts and analysis on the impact of the video going viral.
-How might the situation have been resolved differently.
-How will you prevent this from happening in the future.
You guys have been out of school for a while if you think a three-page paper (that’s ~750 words of double-spaced typing) is particularly onerous. Some of y’all have blown past in just a few posts in this thread.
The kid broke knowingly broke a rule for the purpose of exposing what he perceived as an injustice. This is a hallowed American tradition. Good for him!
But it’s only half the tradition. The other half is accepting that breaking rules gets one punished. If he wanted to be really impactful, he’d write a scathing essay that conforms to the parameters of the assignment and post that to the internet as well.
I don’t actually disagree entirely with Chessic’s explanation of the dynamics at play. Yes, you are paying the teacher for a service, and she is required to give that service.
However, the remedy for her not giving that service to your satisfaction is to not continue doing business with her. You are also free to tell others about how you didn’t get the service you wanted from her.
Demanding a refund is not out of the question. However, the way college contracts are set up, you have a limited time to get a refund. And, if you violate the rules, you may give up your right to get a refund.
You don’t get to try and shut down the service that everyone else thinks is adequate just because you personally didn’t like it. That would be you controlling the speech of the other person, and you can’t do that. You can only take your business elsewhere.
Anything else you do is just a request–either to the teacher and her superiors to change tactics, or to the public to refuse doing business with them. You can’t control them. You can’t force them to make the classroom a safe space.
That assumes that he’s bright enough to string more than three words together without making an ass of himself, let alone write an eloquent essay. The problem with the essay requirement, aside from the presumption of basic literacy, is that it effectively asks, “tell us what was going through that pinhead brain of yours when you decided to do this”, which is a level of intellectual exercise that can be very problematic for the kind of political demographic he seems to represent.
Definition of student
1
: scholar, learner; especially : one who attends a school
2
: one who studies : an attentive and systematic observer <a student of politics>
Definition of learn
learnedplay \ˈlərnd, ˈlərnt; learning
transitive verb
1
a (1) : to gain knowledge or understanding of or skill in by study, instruction, or experience <learn a trade> <learned to play chess> (2) : memorize <learn the lines of a play>
b : to come to be able <learn to dance>
c : to come to realize <learned that honesty paid>
Definition of professor
1
: one that professes, avows, or declares
2
a : a faculty member of the highest academic rank at an institution of higher education
b : a teacher at a university, college, or sometimes secondary school
c : one that teaches or professes special knowledge of an art, sport, or occupation requiring skill
Ignorance Corrected. You’re Welcome.
Now that Ignorance has been confronted and fought head on, lets move on so the rest of the class can get their moneys worth today, shall we?
If I’m actively breaking a rule, I should reasonably expect to be punished for it in most cases irrespective of how often breaking the rule is punished. Whether I thought my actions were justified are largely irrelevant save for some extreme cases where I was recording evidence of a crime. Yet even then, the college’s decision whether or not to punish me for breaking a rule in such a case would likely be more based on the optics of expelling a student who revealed the professor committing a crime. If I felt I did something wrong, yeah I would write the apology. If I felt justified in breaking the rule, I would weigh whether not apologizing for a justified act was more important to me than finishing my education at the college to decide whether I would apologize or not.
Ok, seeing that I guess he could write something. He could say something like “sorry I had to do this but…” which is really what this was all about.
He could easily put the ball back in the court of the administration where THEY would have to prove a leftist teacher wont use her post to go on another rant again.
I would write the apology because I wouldn’t care about it enough to fight over it, disrupt my schooling, go to court, etc. Who cares if an instructor babbled on inanely, they often do. My guess is he’s just trying to cash in on it.
My first semester of college, the biology professor (in an auditorium) turned on the projector and stood by cackling with laughter while a couple hundred students (including a couple of nuns) watched a film showing people masturbating. No one ever missed his class after that!
Why on earth should they have to prove any such thing, and who do they have to prove it to:confused: She is a tenured professor and can say any damn thing she wants.
What exactly did this student hope to achieve by posting this to the Internet? Unless he’s an idiot, he knows there’s no way he can get her fired, because tenure. Maybe he just wanted to provide some recreational outrage for his fellow Know-Nothings who have no understanding of or respect for higher education, or for smart people in general. It’s quite possible that he may have hoped that she would receive death threats or worse.
The college is in the right and the kid is lucky not to have been expelled for taking actions which predictably would lead to the teacher being physically endangered.
They do, however, have a copyright in their presentation.
That’s too bad, you’d be a lot better off if you did take them, because then you’d have a greater awareness of the complexities of the social world in which you live.
IANAL, but what is the difference between “not supposed to” and “technically not supposed to”? My guess is, that professors overlook violations when a recording is useful or flattering. Was this recording flattering to the professor?
What is the law, anyway? Can someone videotape me and put the result on YouTube without my consent? Does it matter whether I rave in public, or in a place with an expectation of privacy? Whether the student broke the law or not, it seems OP acknowledges the student broke the school rules. Does this give the school right to expel him? Does the distinction between public and private schools matter?
It seems like OP acknowledges that the student was wrong and that it was proper for him to be expelled; he asks whether student should “stick to principles” and remain expelled. Perhaps so, if he thinks another school would be a better fit for him.
But it confuses me that the student “needed proof” so posted the “rant” on social media. If the “proof” was what was important he could have arranged a private screening with school officials. OP: is there a better phrase than “needed proof” to describe student’s real intention?
BTW, www.redstate.com [del]never did allow me[/del] made it very difficult to view the page OP linked to. I eventully get “note to site owner: link expired” or such; perhaps after making mistakes in repeated efforts to prove I’m not a robot. (I clicked again just now, and was finally presented with the page … without even a robot test.) Why link to redstate anyway —the only relevancy there (setting aside a joke “Nah, I made that last part up.”) is a YouTube link.
I didn’t listen to the Professor’s ant-Trump anti-Pence rant — I could tape record myself if I wanted that. The fact that the student rejected the “rant” demonstrates to me that the professor’s work is necessary; the important question is how to get through to people effectively.
Its interesting you mention that because the class is human sexuality and the teacher was famous for always pushing the edge and doing things just like you say like showing porn movies.
Which I personally think is why she felt she could go off on her rant because over the years she had gotten used to saying or doing anything she wanted to do in her class no matter how “shocking”.
The fact that the student rejected the “rant” demonstrates to me that the professor’s work is necessary; the important question is how to get through to people effectively.