Cheesesteak: I was addressing the issue with the military ID; however, I’m fairly certain that it’s applicable to any ID one uses in an attempt to gain access to an establishment one is not lawfully permitted such access.
This is the thing that bugs me, and doesn’t seem to bother anyone else. Why is it a crime to present an unaltered ID clearly stating your age to a bouncer? In my book, you should be turned away from the establishment, and that’s it.
I’m really trying hard to figure out what’s so reprehensible about presenting an ID to a place you’re not allowed to go.
I’m with you Cheesesteak. If he was stopped by the bouncer then he didn’t legally enter the establishment. Right? And he didn’t freudently misrepresent his age.
sk8rixtx: 2
Ontario: 0
Keerap. ‘‘fraudently’’
I know he wasn’t there hoping to see his mother.
Cheesesteak: My gues is that presenting the unaltered ID is an attempt to trick the checker into thinking an ID was presented that showed the person as being of the required age–something to do with an attempt to capitalize on the checker not catching the actual birthdate on the thing.
Looking for a theme song? How about Ontario Sucks (sometimes also called “The Toronto Song”) by loopy Albertan band Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie.
That is such a weak stretch, Monty.
I’m with Cheesesteak on this one. How does NOT lying about your age, nor misrepresenting yourself of a certain age qualify as a violation? Simple ignorance in this situation certainly applies when not outwardly breaking the law-even though normally ignorance of the law would not be an excuse.
Here in California, if you attempt to pass of an illegal/forged ID, you lose it. That I have no problem with. But seizure of an ID card presented with the best of intentions(I.E.-no fraud), is ridiculous.
Hell, don’t they have signs up that say “UNDER XX AGE NOT ALLOWED”? Here, all drinking/stripping establishments have those signs up.
Sam
snicker
We are woefully backwards about alchohol in this province, it’s true. However, I was under the impression that last call is now 2:00 am, not that it’s much to brag about. Hey, at least they don’t hand out hair shirts at the club entrances anymore.
Confiscating one’s ID is a ridiculous abuse of position, whether it be a cop or a bouncer. The only reasonable course, IMO, would have been to advise sk8rixtx of his error, wish him good evening and send him on his way.
To be fair, blah, etc, not all bouncers are inflicted with the need to over-compensate for their tiny penii by being assholes. There are some decent ones in Ontario, just as there are some decent cops.
I’m sorry for your trouble sk8. Please do come back when you’re 19 and give us another chance. We need all the drunken tourists’ dollars we can possibly get our SARS-infected hands on. 
Oh for Pete’s sake… ‘‘fraudulently’’.
The police department needs to be notified that one of their officers inappropriately confiscated a military ID and is in illegal possession of it.
GaWd: The subterfuge is contained in the mere act of presenting something which one purports to be an identity card that establishes sufficient age. It’s like saying, “Let me in, I’m old enough & here’s proof.”
I don’t see that as a weak stretch, or a stretch at all.
lieu: The police officer is not maintaining possession of it. He’s supposed to return it to the purported issuing agency via the proper channels.
My point is he (police officer) shouldn’t have confiscated it in the first place. Yeah, returning it via the proper channels is what he’s suppossed to do but given the fact he didn’t do what he was suppossed to do the first time, don’t you think a heated letter to his department chief might be in order?
Monty-
Apparently, there aren’t signs claiming the required minimum age to enter. If an out-of-towner comes to the establishment, and there’s no properly posted minimum age, where’s the subterfuge?
He didn’t say, “Hi, I’m 19, let me in”. He said “Here’s my identification”.
If the minimum age to enter a specific bar is say(for examples’ sake), 28 and I go to enter thinking the minimum age is the standard 21, and there’s no minimum age posted on the door, have I, as a 27-year old male commited an act of subterfuge by presenting my supposedly valid ID?
No, at least not so far as I can tell.
Sam
GaWd: I’m going with the “ignorance of the law is no excuse” bit. The law established a minimum age to enter a drinking establishment, did it not?
Monty, he didn’t enter the establishment, so what law did he break? Ignorance of the law is no excuse, but it’s not a crime in and of itself either.
Should I get in trouble if I pull on the door handle of a closed business? Breaking and entering is illegal, right? The business is closed and I’m trying to get in, so that’s a crime. Except, I just made a mistake about the hours they do business.
I’m with the camp that says the author of the OP got fucked.
Did you get the cop’s badge number? I think its worth writing in a complaint, I can say with almost a 100% certainty all police departments in this province are required to investigate any and all complaints regarding a police officer. If your military Identifications are anything like ours they are government documents and the property of your armed forces and/or federal government. The bouncer and cop had no right to confiscate your I.D for the same reason they can’t confiscate your passport. And what if he confiscated your passport for the same bogus reason and you needed it to get back into the U.S., what then?
If you really have an axe to grind you should cc the letter to the U.S. embassy in Ottawa. Nothing may come of it but at least you’ll put some heat on the cop. Unfortunately, your case of a teenager trying to get into a titty bar doesn’t exactly lend itself to credibility even though it was under the best of intentions.
BTW, Triss I know cut off time in Ontario is now 2 am, my post says “until recently cut-off time was 1 am”.
Monty, I’m not arguing whether ignorance of the law is an excuse or not-however, ignorance of the law does not equate subterfuge. At least, not in this case, and not with regards to at least U.S. law if not Canadian law as well.
Sam
I love Ontario.
Love it.
Every time I cross the border, I feel great!
But after a few days, I can’t wait to get back to the states.
So I guess it’s a great place to visit, maybe not so great to live.
But it certainly doesn’t suck.
You guys are assuming the OP is being honest.
Sounds more like he didn’t get to see some pink titty and got mad.
I live in Ontario and have had no problems such as that. So one little 18 year old, booze deprived '“sk8r”-boy doesn’t get what he wants and 1. the strip club bouncer and 2. the police all conspire against the good, honest lad.
Smells fishy to me.
P.s. the legal drinking age in Ontario has been 19 for as long as I can remember. Still better than 21.
Liquor Licence Act, R.S.O. 1990, CHAPTER L.19
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/Statutes/English/90l19_e.htm#P514_46299
**
Yea’, because it just makes sense to lie to complete strangers on message boards.
Though I will state for the record that Ontario is a pretty nice place. I like your Hard Rock Cafe, and the Skylon Tower is interesting.
Other than that I didn’t see a single sign saying that 19 was the legal age to partake in events such as going to the strip club or drinking. Maybe they’re all over the place and I was just too dumb to notice. If I’d have known, I wouldn’t have tried. Trust me, I’d rather just get bombed with my friends in a hotel room, cheaper than going to a bar. Its just the experience. Tell me you’ve never done anything for the experience of it. When you first turned 21, or realized that you could atleast pass for 21, don’t tell me you didn’t go to the bar. Why did you go to the bar? Why didn’t you just stay home and drink? Maybe it wasn’t about drinking in the first place. Did anyone think about that? Has anyone actually taken my perspective into things? Do you remember what it was like to be my age or are you too old? You twenty/thirty/fourty/even fifty/and maybe sixty - somethings can’t possibly forget what it was like to be my age. You can’t. Flame me for speaking my mind, but atleast I spoke it. I’m done. I got my answers from the people in the thread who responded not to take sides, but to present me with some helpful facts (Gorsnak, Monty, CritcalMass, and… Muffin). Case closed.
Thank you,
-little 18 year old, booze deprived “'sk8r”-boy
(I’ll admit, this struck a nerve)
Oh gosh, that’s funny. That’s really funny. Do, do you write your own material? Do you? Because that is soooo fresh. “‘sk8r’ - boy”. Y’know, no one has ever made that joke before. Yep. You’re the first. I’ve never heard anyone reference that outside the song before. Because that’s what she says in the song, right? Isn’t it? “Sk8r boy”? And yet you’ve taken that, and used it out of context to insult me in this everyday situation(message board post). God, what a clever, smart person you must be. To come up with a joke like that all by yourself. Man, that’s so fresh too. Any Bush jokes you want to throw at me as long as we’re hitting these phenomena at the hight of their popularity? Because I’m here. God you’re soooo funny.
Thought I’d add a little Stewie Griffin in this post.