I’m part of our past? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! :eek:
Those kids would probably be shocked at my ignorance of current movie and TV personalities, sports stars, and current popular music.
I’m part of our past? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! :eek:
Those kids would probably be shocked at my ignorance of current movie and TV personalities, sports stars, and current popular music.
Actually, not knowing where Iraq is seems like simple efficiency. It seems likely at this point that in a few years there won’t be a country called “Iraq”, but rather two or three smaller nations, segregated by religion, occupying the same space. May as well just wait and learn their names.
I’m sure that’s what all those students were thinking.
(Seriously, though, I’m with the “who cares?” crowd. Demonstrate to me that those students aren’t capable of finding out where Iraq is on a map, and I care a great deal more.)
I cannot believe that so many thinking adults are seriously saying that basic ignorance of the world just doesn’t matter. This is appalling rationalisation and justification of ill-education. Would any of you be saying that not knowing the alphabet or the 5x tables was OK because you could just go look it up somewhere? No! There is a basic level of general knowledge required to function meaningfully in the world, and knowing where pretty much every country is, is part of it. Simply astonishing.
But are you saying that being able to find Iraq on a map is essential to meaningful functioning? It demonstrably isn’t. And no one can say, with any degree of specificity, what “general knowledge” is. People generally use the term to mean “things* I *know.” For example, the OP would have hardly opened this thread to diss people for not knowing where Iraq is if he/she didn’t know where it was him/herself. Ours is the great age of specialization – people often don’t have much “general” knowledge, but have a great deal of knowledge about things that matter to them. Plus, with the Internet, you know you can always look it up.
Amusing/horrifying anecdote: I went up to our local petrol* station to buy a loaf of bread, which cost £1.12. I gave the guy a £2 coin. A coin. He rang it up on the till, and gave me back… £3.88. I stared at him. He stared back.
The real idiot in this story is me. I pointed out his mistake. :smack: Well, I didn’t want him calling back to me as I left the shop.
*Americans call it ‘gas’. :rolleyes:
Which is exactly the kind of blinkered philistine ignorance (to quote MP) I was railing against. Overspecialisation (if that’s really the wafer-thin basis of your defense of ignorance) is just an excuse for ill-education. As Robert Heinlein said:
We’re talking about schooling, though. I thought schools were supposed to give you a good base of general knowledge so you could figure out what matters to you and then specialize in whatever that is. And again, if schools aren’t even letting students know where Iraq is, it’s hard to be confident that they’re teaching much else about Iraq.
Also, let’s not overlook the fact that Iraq’s location on the map is part of why it’s in the news.
I believe that as self appointed leaders of the free world we have a minimal responsibility and basic human respect to know who we are killing ad where they are on the map. Where is Carmen San Diego when we need her?
(Tongue firmly in cheek)
Well, I can’t count out change to save my life, and I just finished a calculus course.
Of course I’ve never worked retail or with a cash register either, but maybe she was new?
Okay, for everyone who wants to complain about the lack of general knowledge of others, I’ve put together a little quiz. Here goes:
[ol]
[li]Who wrote Idylls of the King, and about what historic figure?[/li][li]If you’re given volts, what do you need to calculate watts?[/li][li]What’s the formula for calculating the area of a circle? [/li][li]Name this tree[/li][li]Name this bird[/li][li]Name a situation where you are likely to use a dado joint[/li][li]Name all the NFL teams in the state of California[/li][li]Define Say’s Law[/li][li]How many fluid ounces are in a cup?[/li][li]Define the relationship among the following: gene, chromosome, DNA[/li][li]What is the name of Bart Simpson’s bespectacled friend?[/li][li]How many members of Congress does your state have?[/li][li]What metals typically are used to make brass?[/ol][/li]If you can’t answer 100% of these general-knowledge questions, then maybe you should stop dissing other people for their lack of general knowledge.
I disagree (and did so early on in the thread):
But since you state knowing where pretty much every country in the World is required to function meaningfully :eek: , try this simple quiz:
Where are these located?
Yugoslavia
Jersey
The Cook Islands
Rhodesia
Kalmykia
The USSR
Gibraltar
San Seriffe
Prussia
Turkmenistan
Belize
I couldn’t pick it out on a map but I know it sits on oil which the US would like, it’s in a restless area the US would like a hold on, and Saudi Arabia wants the US out so the US would like to set up shop in Iraq instead. Good enough?
It is an interesting question. personally, i found geography interesting. I can accept that a lot of people do not. And, as has been said, most people will never have occasion to need to know a lot of geography. But I find it amazing that most people are so incurious about the world.
but then again, i don’t know anything about basketball!
We are not at war with any of these countries and some of them don’t even exist anymore.
The point is: these kids are in school! Or should be. And knowing where Iraq is should be a basic function of every civics or history class because of what we’re doing there right now. I wouldn’t be dismayed if a current high schooler didn’t know where Vietnam was, even though they probably should know, because while Vietnam is important historically it is not currently important. Same with Korea, Kosovo, or hell even Germany and Japan. But Iraq is currently important and these kids will have to vote on this issue in very short time. And schools should teach what’s currently in the news, such as basics about Iraq which includes its physical location. And if they don’t know it in such large numbers, either the school isn’t doing their job or kids aren’t absorbing the knowledge. It’s probably both.
And no, I don’t think the “well I don’t know anything about sports or pop culture, what’s the diff?” thing holds water. Those things are not taught in schools so it’s not a failing of the school system if someone doesn’t know them.
Ralph, I think the key point is what do you need to memorise by heart?
I have a reasonable idea of where countries are in the World. But I don’t need to memorise any of this stuff - just to know where to look it up.
I think a big change in people’s lives is when they first take an interest in the rest of the World.
I do worry sometimes that because the US is so rich and powerful that its citizens don’t feel the need to think about other countries.
Not bad.
But I think you need to know who set up the current countries in the region; why the boundaries they chose were bad; who brought Saddam to power; who sold him weapons; why the Kurdish problem affects neighbouring countries attitudes and why Al-Qaeda hate the US.
Do you mean their names or their boundaries have changed? :eek:
How many of them can you point to on a map?
How many of them are in a state of conflict? (not with the US, but anyone)
I agree that it’s important to know about Iraq. I also think Vietnam has a lot of relevance to Iraq. (How did politicians justify starting each war? Why use names like ‘police action’ and ‘enemy combatant’?)
However I think that current news stories are going to be hard to teach in history lessons. (No chance of textbooks for example.)
You can certainly have a class discussion of the issues. However there are heavy political overtones. Suppose you were the teacher. How would you answer questions like ‘Was the war justified?’ or ‘Why did the UN not back us?’ or ‘Why isn’t Saddam being tried at the International War Crimes Court?’.
Finally school should teach kids how to learn. Let them read newspapers and surf serious net sites. teach them to distinguish Government spin from truth!
Well, if kids knew the general location of Iraq then it should be easy enough to use a map to find it, as long as they have basic map-reading skills. (I am assuming the map was marked.) So they don’t even know it’s in the Middle East. Which in my opinion is terrible.
Oh, and I could find four of the countries or former countries on that list by sight, know the general area of three, and am in the dark on the other four (I have never heard of San Seriffe or Kalymkia). And I don’t think I’m terribly well-informed.
Perhaps a better question would be, would these people know how to go about figuring out the answers to these questions?
Yeah, sure, I couldn’t pick out the Czech Republic on a map right off the bat, although I could ballpark it. But I know how to figure that out…
Off the top of my head I don’t recall the formula for the surface area of a cone, but if I go grab a book off my shelf I can have it in a minute…
There’s an absurd amount of knowledge in the world… and it simply isn’t possible (I’d contend) to know / remember all of it…
But if you recognize that and know how to go about looking up information you require I’d say you can balance that out…
Give these kids a labeled atlas… If they still can’t find Iraq… Well, then we’ve got a problem
I’m sure most people struggle to identify states like Iraq, Iowa, Idaho