wring, your presence is requested

I’m hesitant about placing this post here because I don’t want to flame you, but I’m very disappointed at what you posted here.

You’ve been around long enough to know that PETA, gun control, and hunting are hot-button topics on these boards, and I’m sad and disappointed that you chose to insert one of those topics into the thread I started - and of which I’m quite proud, because I didn’t think I had it in me.

This thinking, wring, is wrong:

Experienced hunters know that “No Hunting” signs aren’t always set in stone - some people allow hunting for game birds but not deer, or vice versa. So, yes, it is perfectly acceptable for hunters to knock on the door you chose to put in the middle of prime hunting land and ask permission.

Also, as sledman said:

My thread was about the beauty in the change of seasons, and I think it was poor form for you to insert your anti-hunting stance into it, especially as you already had you own thread about it.

I respectfully request that you not do it again, and that you think before posting hijacks similar to that in the future.

I’m going to side with wring on this one. You had a nice thread, sandyr, and it may have been a little out of place for wring to mention unhappy things in the midst of it, but it looks to me like sledman hijacked that thread by picking up that and arguing about it. “The door you chose to put in the middle of prime hunting land”? That’s an interesting way of putting it, but I have to disagree. Asking to hunt on land posted “No Hunting” is the same as telemarketers calling in the middle of dinner - just because you get a sale in one out of 100 people doesn’t mean you didn’t piss off 99 others.

If, and when I own land, which will probably be in a day, many years from now when people hopefully will have stopped hunting by then, I will erect a sign stating:

NO HUNTING (yes, that means you!)


Montfort, if we stop hunting, what will become of the deer population?


I believe the deer population would rise or fall to the level the environment around them can support. I’ve always thought it was rather odd that hunters believe they are shooting the deer for their own good (to keep the population down) when they only have to do that because they’ve already killed off the natural predators - the wolves.

You know what might happen if you stop hunting? The deer might nibble on the trees in wring’s back yard when she wakes up in the morning and gazes out, cup of hot cider in hand, to gaze on the new-fallen snow and the wonder of nature, as little birds chirp a pretty melody.:smiley:

DavisMcDavis said:

Or the mountain lions that feed on the deer now to keep the population down might make off with her dog, or her cat, or her child, because wring’s living in what used to be their territory. But whatever. :rolleyes:

I know this thread is a rant against the hijack of the nice autumn thread, but addressing this myself:

It may be geographical area or something, but that is the way it works where I live in rural NY. People here post No Hunting signs and No Trespassing signs because they don’t want anyone trespassing or hunting on their property. Since we have state owned land around that you can do whatever you want on (and loads of woods) people don’t generally knock on your door and say “Are ya sure?”

I would find that bizarre at best. I’d probobly ask what part they didn’t understand- the “no” or the “hunting”.

So sandyr, that thinking might be wrong where you live, but around my parts it’s dead on. People rarely put up no hunting or no trespassing signs, and when they do- they mean it. Remember, YMMV. So may everyone elses.


Thanks. seriously, to all.

My first post in your thread sandy, was yes, I like fall, except for this one thing. That’s a true statement, and I felt a valid one. I did NOT feel that it was an inappropriate addition to your lovely thread. I’m sorry if you felt that way.

In fact, that weekend, I’d done the cider mill, apple buying routine and was having fun looking at the changing leaves. The night before your thread started, yes, the hunter came knocking at our door. It startles us to have unexpected guests. There have been maybe 3 people who’ve come to our door in the past year unexpectedly. We don’t have neighbors. We live 20 miles out of town, so folks don’t “just stop by”. It’s very much like (only worse) the telemarketer at dinner time. I’ve gotten to really enjoy my privacy out there, used to live in the city where folks would come knocking a lot. And for some stranger (with a gun, mind you) knocking at my door unexpectedly, asking me a question that had already, in my mind been answered by a public sign, is, at best a rude intrusion.

I feel that ** sledman **, had a choice. He could have A) ignored my remark if it offended him. B) called me out in a seperate thread on it or C) hijack yours. I felt he should have opted for A or B. He didn’t.

I could have, in retropect done A, B or C myself. I chose respond directly to him once, and to point out to him that the hijack was his and he owed you an apology. He then responded, AGAIN. I ignored it. You then added an additional chastizing remark to me. I sighed and responded again.

I felt that I had made a serious attempt to NOT hijack your thread. However, when BOTH you and sledman took the time to hijack your own thread to specifically chastize me, why would you then feel that it was MY fault to respond to your slaps?

Yes, I still feel that once I post my property as “no hunting” and “private property” and “no soliciting” etc. that should suggest to you that a knock on my door asking if I really mean you would not be welcome.

In brief. No, I don’t like hunting on my property. No I don’t hold any animosity towards any of the hunters on this board. I try, very hard, to keep a civil tone in every debate that I’ve gotten into (and frankly, even tho this was posted in the pit, I thank one and all for still keeping a civil tone). I have posted to threads started by some of the VERY people that I argued with about the hunting thing, never once mentioned our prior disagreement. We disagree on that issue. This does NOT mean that every time I meet up with them that I should bring out our prior disagreement.

If your thread had been about winter, I wouldn’t have mentioned hunters. If your thread had been about the color orange, I might have. If your thread had been about cherry pie, Nope. see?

Again. I am sorry you felt I hijacked your thread. I said so at the time.

My family hunts, I eat deer, and moose. I have no qualms about it. I dont want the forest to be over run with starving dder who wander in front of cars looking for food.

That being said, the people I know who have NO HUNTING signs on their property are not anti-hunting, but they have pets like horses, or they have children and dont want some drunken ‘hunter’ taking a wild shot.

In the province where I live, hunting is a huge part of the culture. Very few people are anti-hunting. And sadly every year there are reports of pets shot, men killed, property damaged.


This isnt brain surgery.

If your are has negotiable NO HUNTING areas, well then…um…ok. Please ask these people not ot come to NB because if they walk up to a door up here with a gun in hand, they wont be at all welcome.

It never would have occured to me to knock on someone’s door and ask if their “No Hunting” sign applied to me–and yes, I hunt. But “No Tresspassing” does notnecessarrily mean everybody–it just means no entry onto the property without permission–so I can see where some might think “No Hunting” was the same sort of thing.

Incidentally, posting your land “No Hunting” here in Pennsylvania automatically means no exceptions–not even for the landowner. If you wish to hunt on your own land, you have to go with “No Tresspassing.”

Homer, I would hope that they get the chance to evolve and get the ability to shoot rifles at innocent humans.

Wouldn’t that be nice?

Thanks, wring. I’m glad you didn’t come back and pound me into the ground, as that was not my intent at all. I suppose, strictly speaking, I could have posted this in MPSIMS, but forum rules and all that…

a) Thanks :slight_smile:
b) Yeah, I did feel that way, but it’s because I don’t post things like that and was (as stated earlier) pretty damn proud of it, especially considering some of the (extraordinarily unexpected) praise I received for it. I heard and saw the geese in the morning and spent all day with a smile on my face because of it, and that OP was kind of a stream-of-consciousness thing that spilled out as I was typing. Because I don’t write stuff like that I felt proprietary about it, and maybe because the subject was close to my heart I was a bit thin-skinned.

This bit made me think.

I was raised in farm country. My family is not ‘close’ with the neighbors - they’re not friends or anything. Yeah, they know who they are and who their kids are, and smile and say hi in the grocery store or in church or the feed mill or at school events, but they don’t socialize.

It is quite common for neighbors with whom we haven’t had a phone conversation in years call us up in spring or summer to borrow our picnic table for use at a graduation or anniversary party. It’s common for people to stop by the farm only in spring, to see how planting is going, or only during harvest, to see how it’s going. And, yes, only during a hunting season, to see if you’ve seen deeor over by the river or pheasants by the cornfield on the corner. Yes, there’s a purpose to all of these calls and visits, but it’s also a way to connect to those you don’t see often; a way of being neighborly.

PLEASE don’t take offense to this, because I’m truly curious, but the above quote make me wonder how connected you are to the community you have moved to.

I can read from work, but I can’t post from work. I saw your post around 11 and cringed because I knew what was coming next. Perhaps sledman should not have responded the way he did, but I don’t think he would have responded at all had he not first seen your post.

Yeah, that’s why I brought it here - too much damage had already been done; while the thread was un-salvagable I did not want to ruin it further. So in the pit we are :slight_smile:

No, not making light of them; I think I covered them above. I, too, am pleased that no one turned this into a mud-slinging contest. As I’ve said: I’m not pissed, just hurt and disappointed.

Is it, but you might want to mosey on over to GQ and toss in your 2 cents.

Montfort, I’ve never hunted and don’t support hunters, but this:

doesn’t make sense.

Deer are more likely to evolve when there are evolutionary pressures on them, like say, hunters. A herd of deer left to their own devices will not evolve. A herd that loses its stupidest members to hunters would gradually become smarter.

Obviously, that was throwaway remark and the odds of deer evolving into man-hunters is right up there with the odds of creationists admitting it had happened if it did.

I just… felt like nitpicking.

And yes, that would be nice.


sandy -
I understand that you were (justifiably) proud of your thread. Not to beat the dead horse, but I monitored the process. after sledman posted his hijack. I first, responded to the hijack, calling it to HIS attention that he owed you an apology. Then briefly responded to his point, THEN apologiezed to you for both of us, THEN went on try and bring the topic BACK to the OP.

He responded to me, APOLOGIZED for his hijack BUT THEN went on to hijack it more. I saw that, thought “no, I’m NOT going to respond to that, it would only hijack the thread more, and I’d rather let him think he had the last word than to go through all of it again”. He NEVER posted any thought on the original OP.

I continued to monitor it. Other people posted afterwards, to the direct thread. and I thought “oh, good, it’s gotten back on track.”

Then, you posted, and thanked folks for their lovely thoughts and compliments.

BUT then you went on to tell sledman and me to “knock it off”. Fine. even tho’ that kinda brought it back around again. I still would have left it alone had you stopped there.

THEN you singled me out. and, frankly sandy, NOT even for “hijacking” your thread (which you expressed here), BUT siding with sledman on HIS hijack. How is that NOT you hijacking your own thread? I felt at that point, that you were singling me out, not just for hijacking your thread, but on the hijacking point itself.

I’m not posting these questions for you to answer publically. I just wanted you to see it from my end. I still don’t hold animosity towards you, sledman or the other folks in that other thread (which frankly I did ** not ** start).

and, as far as “why am I not neighborly” (paraphrasing). I grew up in the concrete jungle suburbs of D-troit, where we joked about the next door neighbors as being “Kendall’s groceries”, and could count on Mrs. K peering out at whoever pulled into our drive. For the 11 years immediately prior to my move, I was in inner city Lansing, a rough neighborhood. I moved out to the country to be with my SO (of the past 14 years, we wanted to make sure the relationship was stable before moving in together, since I have a minor child)

The house is owned by my SO, he’s lived there for the past 30 years. There is undeveloped swampland to the East and North of us. A tract of farmed property across the street to the West. The closest “neighbor” is a tenth of a mile away to the South. There’s tons of posted public hunting 4 tenths of a mile South of us. In his 30 years of living there, he has NEVER allowed hunting on his property. They’ve raised geese, rabbits, hogs, tomatoes etc on this property in the past. But currently, no farming.

And friendly? Well, one day I got our mail and discovered a bunch of mail that had been misdelivered. I recognized one item as being a check (of some sort), figured these folks would really appreciate having it tonight, so went in and looked them up in the phone book, called them and walked up to meet them (they were the folks to the south). that was my ONE contact with them. Well, other than for me to moan (inside the house) when they had their skeet shooting contest a few weeks ago.
I’m not looking to isolate myself, but I have learned to appreciate my peace out there.

Finally. I hope that you won’t let ANYTHING detract from the loveliness of your original OP. I hope you kept a copy (deleting additions by myself and sledman, of course). hope to meet up with you for a mug of hot cider (ours has gotten hard by this time tho’ - which both SO and son like).

Whoa…. Just happened to do a search on my name and came across this. (Kind of answers another thread somewhere about searching on your own name.)

This has to be one of the kindest Pit threads I’ve seen.

First off my apologies to sandyr for upsetting(ruining) a wonderful thread. I should have turned the other cheek but I can be a confrontational bastard at times. Ask my v-ball team.

wring… First I did add something to the OP if you read my first post to that thread.

Second, should I have turned the other cheek…maybe or at least done it somewhere else. I apologize for that. More to sandyr than yourself but to you also. I took away a good thread from sandyr by doing that. We both bear guilt and I see you have made your peace with sandyr. I hold no ill will over you with most things but we are polar opposites on hunting. I saw, I responded at the instant my blood boiled.

Everyone else who is questioning what signs mean and what they mean in your area…

It is universally accepted within the hunting community that you ask permission to hunt on the land of another person. Asking someone whose land is posted is not comparable to a telemarketer. Should the person have knocked on wring’s door… Well that is a tough one to answer. There is something admirable about doing it in person but at the same time a phone call may have been more appropriate. This is a judgement call. If he/she walked to your door holding a gun… well then I would say no too because of the presumption implied by that.

I personally called someone to ask permission to hunt on their posted land when I was 16. I was denied. Fast forward 14 years I was hunting on land next to theirs and shot a deer which ran onto their property. I searched out the owners in person and asked for permission to get the deer. They agreed and in fact remembered my having called them 14 years prior. This was our first face to face meeting although living less than a mile from one another for 5 years. I know they hunt their own land and have let others hunt on it that is why I asked originally. Posting your land gives you some degree of protection under the law. The main purpose though is to control who is using your land and for what. The proper thing is to buy a plat book and attempt to contact the owner of a piece of property for permission. The hunter landowner relationship in its proper form benefits both the hunter and the landowner.

I again apologize to sandyr for ruining her thread and to wring for not bringing the issue to a proper forum. Again no offense about other things but next time I will bring it to another thread. You are entitled to your opinions and there probably is little I can do to change them on this topic but if I see something that doesn’t jibe I’ll call you on it just as I would expect you to do to me.

Forgive me O’ Mighty Goddess of the Mississippi. I have sinned against you and your wonderful thread about the most wonderful time of the year…Autumn.