The union requests for minimum numbers of writers on projects doesn’t seem to me like a million miles from that point of view. They are certainly asking for job numbers to be guaranteed.
It seems pretty far from it to me. For a union to stipulate that if you’re running a business venture that requires the services of writers, you must employ what the union considers an adequately sized writers’ team with what the union considers adequate compensation, is nowhere near claiming that union members are “owed a living as a writer”.
If you need a writer, you have to pay them decently and not exploit them in other ways either. That’s the position that the union exists to defend. That’s not at all the same as saying that union members are automatically entitled to have a successful writing career just because they joined the union.
If Bill Maher thinks that they’re the same thing, then yes, he’s silly. If, on the other hand, he’s just trying to smear the union by deliberately misrepresenting its aims in this dispute, then he’s kinda scummy.
Why is that a reasonable request? other than ensuring more jobs for union members what is the purpose of that demand?
…for the same reason why any job needs a minimum number of workers. A writer can only write a certain amount of words in a week. If you don’t have the minimum, corners get cut, people have to work more hours, often unpaid, writers can’t be on set, pre-production can’t be done properly, quality goes down.
I suppose reasonable people could disagree about exactly what numbers constitute an “adequately sized” writers’ team, of course. But how can you imagine that including that concept as one of the conditions of union-worker employment is not a reasonable request? Of course a workplace needs to be staffed by adequate numbers of people to do the work, duh.
Otherwise, as Banquet_Bear notes, employing inadequate numbers of people to do the work results in overworking them, eroding the quality of their work, and harming the repute of union workers in general. Obviously it’s reasonable for the union to oppose that.
The minimum is one, it is often the maximum needed as well.
This may come as a shock to you, but it’s possible that the Writers Guild of America is more knowledgeable about the specifics of writer-team requirements in the entertainment industry, and the criteria that determine an adequate team size for a given scale of project, than you are.
The studio should be the one to say how many people they need, not the union. If they can assemble a highly proficient team that is half the size of the one suggested by the union then they should be free to do so.
Or indeed the studios?
It seems like that should be a choice for the studio to make. Lots of businesses have tradeoffs they have to make. A studio may be fine with the level of quality that a small number of writers can produce. It depends on the show they are trying to produce. If they are producing the show for a market where there’s not a lot of revenue, they may have to limit the number of writers to limit the costs. If it’s a top-notch show like “Game of Thrones” that makes a lot of money, they’ll have a lot of writers. If it’s crappy reality show filler like “Passion Island”, then they’ll just have a few.
Why? Whence this rather servile-seeming automatic trust in the employer’s willingness to offer working conditions that don’t exploit the workers, with no contractual restrictions and no professional oversight on the workers’ behalf?
When you have a plumbing problem and you call the plumber, are you the one who gets to decide whether the plumber needs to bring along an assistant or should just work on their own? Should the plumber trust you to make that decision based on your understanding of the requirements of the task? Just because you’re the employer? Yeah, I don’t think so.
Mind you, if you can find a non-union plumber who’s willing to take on your job with your stipulated pinchpenny restrictions on the amount of labor you’re willing to pay for, feel free to hire them. Similarly, if the studio can assemble a non-union production team of the size they’re willing to pay, they are free to do so.
But don’t expect the union or its workers to passively acquiesce in the union’s abdicating its responsibilities to support what it considers to be fair employment conditions for its members. A union that just meekly gives up on negotiating working conditions on the grounds that the employer “should be the one to say” is grossly derelict in its duty toward its members.
See above. The studio is free to make whatever choice they want about their workforce (subject to legal restrictions, of course), but not with union employees.
Aw, how nice for the studio. The question is, why should the union “be fine with” the studio imposing that degraded quality of output and conditions on its members?
Believe me, I’m all in favor of independent non-unionized companies and worker’s collectives going their own way and innovating new approaches. There’s nothing wrong with that at all, and if such a company can put together a show that satisfies them and the market independently of union labor, then more power to 'em. Let a thousand showrunners bloom.
But if an employer is choosing to deal with union labor, then it’s the union’s right and duty to fight for employment conditions that it considers to be a fair deal for its workers. Not just lick the employer’s boots while assuring them that it’s entirely up to them how many workers they want to employ and the union will be fine with whatever they decide.
I’m not sure this is the right kind of comparison to make. The output from writers is on a sliding scale of quality. The only thing that suffers is the quality. For things like plumbing repairs, there is more of a binary result. Poor plumbing repairs means that the house ends up flooded. Poor writing just means the final product is not as good as it could have been.
But people still make this kind of decision with stuff like plumbing. Perhaps not directly by specifying the number of plumbers, but rather in how much they are willing to pay. They can pay big bucks to a fancy company who comes with a uniformed crew, or they can pay a few bucks to a single guy to do the work. The level of quality is going to be different, but the homeowner may be fine with the level of quality that comes from the cheap repair. Furthermore, the number of workers doesn’t necessarily equate to better quality. A couple of well experienced plumbers may do a better job than a dozen novices. This is typically evident in the price. A well experienced plumber may cost as much as a handful of novices.
That’s completely at odds with the concept of labor. Employers by their nature have the incentives to hire as few workers as possible to do a job. This means that they will overwork them. Hence unions stand up against this.
This is union 101. Employers have every incentive to exploit workers, to get as much work out of them as possible, not caring about conditions. Unions are the ones who push back on this, to get fair working conditions, even though they may cost the employer more.
It is entirely within the union’s purview to decide how many workers are needed. That way they can push back on their members being overworked. A writer should not have to do the job of two writers.
It’s why we have 8 hour days, FFS. Employers would much rather us work long, but labor got that made illegal.
And you get why it’s in the interests of the Writers Guild—as indeed of the plumbers’ union as well—not to endorse conditions of employment that result in inferior work and shoddy results on the part of its members, right?
And as I said above—even in the first version of my previous post, before I carelessly got involved in an extended post edit to reply to you instead of making a separate subsequent post—there’s absolutely nothing wrong with an employer making that choice, if they can find a cheap handyman to take on the job.
But it’s not reasonable to expect the plumbers’ union to abdicate its responsibilities to its members by refusing to negotiate what it considers to be fair conditions of employment for them.
Why is it reasonable? Because they can.
This is why I think Maher is being ridiculous. He’s falsely claiming that the union is making a moral argument–that they’re owed a living–when their actual argument is an argument from power. Their argument is, “There’s a bunch of us writers who want specific working conditions. You can give us those conditions, or you can try to find writers who haven’t agreed to our demands.”
The studios want to shift things so that the power of the writers is hamstrung, so that the execs can make ever bigger bonuses. The writers don’t want that shift to happen. They’re exercising their power now.
Nobody is saying they’re owed livings as writers. That’s silly. They’re saying you better meet their demands if you want writers. That’s power.
Yeah. It is somewhat gobsmacking to me to see how some posters seem to think that attempts to exercise power on the part of the studios are automatically natural, right and inevitable (“the studio should be the one to say”, “that should be a choice for the studio to make”, “they have tradeoffs they have to make”, etc. etc.), while attempts to exercise power on the part of the unions are automatically unreasonable and greedy.
We really do have a cult of the executive in our society. It’s just totally taken for granted that whatever the employer wants for their workplace or their end product should be deferred to, while whatever the union workers want for their working conditions or compensation should be regarded with suspicion for its presumptive “unreasonableness”.
…the studios have been making that choice. Especially since the start of the pandemic. Which has lead to situations, as I quoted up thread, where a writer was asked to come in and break an entire season of television over a weekend, something that normally takes a properly staffed writers room months to do. (That was TAG, not WGA, but TAG writers have it even worse than the WGA writers have it right now)
The studios are refusing to release the numbers. Which is another reason why the writers are on strike. Which shows are not making any revenue?
Minimum staffing is for episodic television. That doesn’t include “crappy reality shows.” The ask from the WGA is:
This isn’t unreasonable, and is in line with how writers room were typically staffed (with a few, prominent exceptions) up until the start of the pandemic.
And remember, this is a negotiation. This is the starting point. The AMPTP haven’t counter-offered yet.
No, that isn’t the only thing that suffers. The job still needs to be done. The show must go on. They can’t film a show without a script. So if you’ve got smaller writers room then everyone just has to work harder, longer, often working unpaid overtime, because film and television productions are juggernauts. They don’t stop.
Not having enough writers in the room has an impact on the health and safety of the writers.
I’m not a writer, but I work in software development which has some of the same issues. We have to produce a product with the team we have. If we don’t have enough programmers, the end product has more problems. But the quality of programmers matters. A team of 4 experienced programmers may be able to develop a better product than a dozen college grads. If the company doesn’t hire enough programmers of sufficient quality, the end result suffers. If the company expects us to work 90 hours a week, the quality suffers. If the quality suffers enough, the product does poorly in the marketplace and the company goes out of business. If the company wants a good product, they hire the right number of programmers to be profitable. But that number is based on the quality of programmers and the profit expectation of the product. It’s not just a fixed X number of programmers.
I can certainly understand the union fighting for minimum numbers, but I’m not sure if it’s the right thing to fight for. It seems better to specify things like the maximum number of hours the writer can work. If the studio wants a writer to work for 90 hours a week, that’s a problem no matter the number of writers. Better to say writers can only work 40 hours/week. If the studio needs writers to work the weekend, then they hire more writers so that no one goes over 40 hours. If they don’t hire enough writers to allow for weekend rewrites, the show is bad and goes off the air. The same with any other aspect of the show.
I don’t see how what I said is at odds with the concept of “labour”. It seems exactly on point.
Wasting resources is not a profitable enterprise. Employers want as many people as needed to do a job and no more;
Unions, by their nature, want as many union jobs retained as possible. How many are truly needed is secondary to that.
that is certainly a risk but it is a risk regardless of how many writers the union may dictate are needed.
What would be perfectly reasonable, is something in the demands relating to those issues of over-work. Limitations on working days/weeks, holidays, sick pay, minimum breaks between shifts etc.
If those were in the demands then I’d accept the union were actually bothered about working conditions rather than just preserving numbers of jobs for their members.
That doesn’t make sense. The ability to make a demand does not mean that it is a reasonable demand.
Absolutely, and they are perfectly entitled to withdraw their labour and make that stand. Bill Maher is equally entitled to find and use other writers if he can.