WTF? Ex-boyfriend inventory on a Saturday morning? (TMI warning)

[CnoteChris]

Originally posted by Hastur
Puh-leeze.

Oh go please yourself.

*Originally posted by Hastur *
Were you to have read and absorbed what the other gay dopers have said, you might get a clue on about the perception and WHY irritation was justly felt.

That’s just the thing, Hastur, I don’t think his anger towards Lisa, myself, and some others, was justified.

That’s what I’ve been saying, and explaining, all along.

[scott_evil]

*Originally posted by CnoteChris *
Scott-

#1. The closest you came was this… “So I post something about a weird occurence that may or may not have involved (cover your eyes) gay sex… <snip> Did I once mention sex in my OP? No. It may have been implied, but never mentioned.” (Page 1)

Now I can see where that might have meant sex, as in sexual intercourse, but at the time, I took the comment to mean you tried to keep the sexuality of both parties out of it.

If I was wrong, than I was wrong. In this thread, as with many others, I’m not looking first at who wrote the thing, nor am, or was, I tring to make a connection between whether you or he was gay or anything like that. I initially (Because it wasn’t obvious in the OP) thought this had to do with het sex.

Sorry, but it doesn’t take a brain surgeon to figure that out.

#2. Stranger things have happened around here. There’s been any number of times I’ve thought a poster was male, only to learn later on they were female, and vice versa. But I admit, it wasn’t until I went back and read your name and then re-read the post that it was clearer that this was about two guys, and not some other combination.

Well, that’s not my fault, is it? Do I have to preface every one of my posts with “BTW I AM GAY, oh yeah I’m male”?

#3. The whole ‘chyck’ thing, guy thing, people taking shit, someone not saying something while you slept, and to be honest with you, I got confused pretty fast. Originally, I thought the ‘chyck’ was clearing shit out, not the other way around.

The ex shows up with some chyck. Ex. Ex-boyfriend. Right there in the subject heading.

Again, retention of the specific details did allude me for a bit, originally, but it wasn’t like you made it easy to understand (Sorry, but it’s true).

You’re the only one who has had this kind of confusion. I think it was pretty clear from the outset, or at least from my subsequent replies.

Given that, heading into PunditLisa’s post I wasn’t a bit surprised to see what she had written, again, because it was gender/sexuality-wise nuetral. But even after I understood the details, her comment alone didn’t seem all that offensive to me, it seemed pretty sincere and nothing out of the ordinary for here, or the real world.

I have no problem or ill feelings toward PunditLisa. Check another of my replies and you’ll see that I expressed gratitude for the concern of my fellow Dopers.

#5. Good lord. You expect me to remember, or find, your very first post around here introducing yourself? That makes about as much sense as Esprix insinuating that I need to search your posts before I comment, just to make sure I’m up to speed and fully aware of any situation that led to this blow-up.

Of course not. But most of the others who reply to my posts are aware that I’m gay. I just figured just about everyone active on the boards would be in the loop. It’s not your fault. However, I’ve never had a post where someone replied to the effect “You’re gay???” There’s a reason why I said I was gay in my first post. I’m out at work, with my family, with my friends, and so on. So why should I be closeted on a message board? I’ve been able to get some good advice, and make new email hos, in the few months I’ve been here. I can talk about things here that I can’t with my parents, my best friend, or even my work fag-hag. Of course they all know I’m gay. But sometimes I look elsewhere for feedback, and sometimes, advice.

Imagine this: I’m sleeping in bed - alone- and an ex of mine bursts in and starts writing down what’s his and what’s mine. I post about it. People say, wow, scott, that was freaky and scary. You should change your locks. But in this case, I happened to be at another guy’s place. Suddenly, it’s all about safe sex and the fact that I went home with someone. The OP was about how creepy it was that an ex should burst in on a Saturday morning. It was not, I repeat not about sex.

And I don’t think I owe anyone an apology. Maybe some of the other Queer Dopers do (I don’t know), but not me.

• s.e.

[matt_mcl]

Look. Regardless of who knew who was a homo, whether anyone accused anyone of having AIDS, whatever, the point is that this:

(1) Scott, it’s apparent from your colorful language that I hit a nerve. Good.

(2) You took a stupid, unnecessary risk by going home with someone you just met. [snip]

(3) Are you sick of hearing the safe sex lectures? Then don’t post threads boasting about your one night stands.

(4) What were you expecting with this thread? Congratulatory high-fives about your freakish sexual adventures?

was:

1. an admission of a previous post’s being intentionally inflammatory;

2. unbelievably patronizing, stating that scott is not an adult who knows what the hell he’s doing;

3. betraying a total misunderstanding of the whole point of the thread, having been blinded to the main issue (weird ex-boyfriends) by the sexual atmosphere in which they took place, which does not speak well for this poster’s ability to dispense cogent advice; which is

4. driven home by her gratuitous reference to scott’s “sexual adventures” as “freakish,” a judgment upon his character with which scott and every other Doper who practices the mentioned behaviour has every right to take issue.

I have little sympathy for the injustices that this poster may believe were perpetrated upon her out of the anger this silly, patronizing, “eww-ick-sex-gross” post incited.

[gobear]

Ahem, eyer8

[quote]

Originally posted by Hastur
AGAIN with the safe sex lecture from a clueless hetero! SoScott Evil went home with a trick last night? So what? What gay man hasn’t done that? Do you lecture hetero guys who have casual sex? If not, shut the fuck up.

Yiiii! Pretty virulent, I would think twice about posting my opinion again!
I wrote that comment, not Hastur. I’ll take the rap for my own virulence, thank you.

I already started a thread that discussed this very problem: if a gay guy mentions having sex, casual or not, inevitably some ass will say, “Ever hear about AIDS?” Never happens when a straight person posts, and it’s gotten damn annoying.

No apologies are warranted. PunditLisa had the effrontery to lecture SE about HIV, and Sue Duhnym drags in utterly irrelevant domestic violence cites in a thread that wasn’t even about sex! SE is 30 fuckin’ years old! He doesn’t need your goddam condescension and patronizing advice.

Get it clear: YOU DO NOT KNOW AS MUCH ABOUT GAY LIFE OR GAY SEX AS ACTUAL GAY MEN DO, SO DON’T FUCKING LECTURE US ON OUR LIVES!

Yes, we’ve heard about it.

[CnoteChris]

As I’ve typed this reply up, oh, about ten times now, I’ve finally come to the conclusion, and the revelation, actually, that no amount of explaining, reasoning, or otherwise, will ever get you to see my side of the argument, or why I originally posted to this thread in the first place. Even slightly.

I’ll continue to think that your, and others here, behavior towards PunditLisa, was completely uncalled for, and totally without cause.

You’ll probably forever think I’m and idiot and a dolt for not only not understanding, nay, supporting, those who so aggressively argued that ‘Hope your careful’ comments have no business in threads like these, but that I couldn’t see your reasons for the unwavering resolve, either.

Such it sometimes the case.

The only way I’ll ever avoid completely and mercilessly hijacking threads like these with comments calling for reason and some common sense, is for me to never open them in the first place.

Fine with me.

[musicguy]

gobear,

May I see you for a moment

[reprise]

Leaving aside the issue of who - possibly - owes whom apologies in this thread, I’d like to place a bet that if almost every thread in which a heterosexual poster mentioned sex either explicitly or from which it might be inferred attracted comments along the lines of “I hope you’re using contraception because you might get pregnant, which might lead to you having to make a decision about terminating a pregnancy, or even having an abortion”, heterosexual posters would start replying along the lines of “of course we know about contraception, and yes we’re using it” or “we aren’t using contraception because we are trying to get pregnant”. And in a very short time, those responses would start getting extremely hostile.

What sometimes happens to gay men on this messageboard is something similar, and I’m not surprised that their reaction to it is becoming increasingly hostile.

[matt_mcl]

Nicely put, reprise.

CnoteChris, pardon me while I bewail your departure and trouble deaf heaven with my bootless cries, or not.

[lilelly28]

:::Dispenses free condoms to posters in battle mode:::

[Happy_Fun_Ball]

Originally posted by gobear
I wrote that comment, not Hastur. I’ll take the rap for my own virulence, thank you.

Doh! Yep, it’s yours, my mistake. Cut and paste error, sorry Hastur & gobear.

Originally posted by gobear
YOU DO NOT KNOW AS MUCH ABOUT GAY LIFE OR GAY SEX AS ACTUAL GAY MEN DO, SO DON’T FUCKING LECTURE US ON OUR LIVES!

Agreed, I would not presume to lecture anyone, gay or straight, on their sex life without first becoming very intimate with them. I agree that PunditLisa was being presumptuous and condescending. I said so in my earlier post.

That said:

Originally posted by gobear
No apologies are warranted. PunditLisa had the effrontery to lecture SE about HIV, and Sue Duhnym drags in utterly irrelevant domestic violence cites in a thread that wasn’t even about sex! SE is 30 fuckin’ years old! He doesn’t need your goddam condescension and patronizing advice.

I still do not see where Lisa mentioned HIV. Do you think it was it implied? By safe sex I think of many other dangers associated with sex. There are other STDs, there is pregnancy (yes, I know not relevant in this discussion), rape, emotional damage, etc… Why did her one comment (I hope you practice safe sex) create this incredible pile on? Please know gobear that I am sincere in this question. I do not see how the responses to her original post were justified.

I can see that here subsequent posts were like pouring gasoline on a fire to put it out. I can see that she was being condescending, but calling her a “clueless hetero”. You also started the pit thread you mentioned, even though she did not mention AIDS. Scott’s comment (“tiny little brain”) was even worse.

I just don’t get it, why not give her the benefit of the doubt and believe she was not being a bigot with a veiled gay sex=AIDS comment? I don’t know what you face in your life to make this connection, but I just don’t see it.

I also agree that Sue Duhnym did drag in some domestic violence cites of questionable relevance. She was trying to be helpful though, and I do not think she deserved the pile on either. As I read that one, she latched on to one phrase and went to find supporting evidence.

Originally posted by Hamish
As I write this, dozens of men are pairing off into couples in Montreal’s gay Village. These are men of every race, religion, culture, and class, some English-speaking, others francophone, and a few who speak neither. They will negotiate, as equals, a mutually pleasurable and deeply personal act. And the worst any of them will suffer is a night of bad sex.

Violence is so rare, in these things, that this very anonymous culture suddenly makes the news.

Sue obviously feels strongly about rape issues, and wanted to point out the dangers. She was trying to clear up what in her mind was a misconception on Hamish’s part.

You responded with this:

Originally posted by gobear
Dang, how did we live our lives in such ignorance without folks like PunditLisa, Guinastasia, and Sue Duhnym telling us alllllll about how gay men live and how dangerous gay men are.

She tried to explain her intentions in several subsequent posts. She offered to apologize if anyone felt insulted. Why not try to explain to her where she went wrong? Granted this is the pit, but what happened to fighting ignorance? Can you imagine what would happen to this board if everyone took your tone every time somebody posted an opinion that they did not agree with?

If you think that Sue, Lisa, and Guin are wrong and insulting, why not explain why you feel that way? Why not try to teach them how to avoid being interpreted that way in the future. Why be a jerk and just call them names?

reprise

Originally posted by reprise
**<snip>**And in a very short time, those responses would start getting extremely hostile.

What sometimes happens to gay men on this messageboard is something similar, and I’m not surprised that their reaction to it is becoming increasingly hostile.

OK, this is about the first thing in this thread that has made sense to me. I still don’t like it though.

[Esprix]

Originally posted by CnoteChris

Good lord. You expect me to remember, or find, your very first post around here introducing yourself? That makes about as much sense as Esprix insinuating that I need to search your posts before I comment, just to make sure I’m up to speed and fully aware of any situation that led to this blow-up.

I neither insinuated nor stated any such thing; I did, however, give an explanation as to why people have reacted the way they did. Talk about reading into statements - physician, go fuck thyself. :rolleyes:

Esprix

[Esprix]

Thank you, reprise - you made our point nicely.

Esprix

[Happy_Fun_Ball]

One final question. Again I want you to know that I am being sincere.

How do your assumptions that Lisa was equating gay men with “disease ridden homos” (as opposed to just not agreeing to the concept of casual sex with strangers) differ from the assumptions of breeders who believe that all gay men have dangerous lifestyles?

I feel they both are assumptions, generalizations. Why stereotype before you find out the truth?

[xcheopis]

Reprise, as I mentioned before, that does happen to me and fairly frequently. It pisses me off no end and my reactions are becoming successively harsher.

For those people who’ve mentioned having one or two friends die of AIDS: I’m truly sorry for your loss.

But…

Imagine if it weren’t one or two friends. Pick up your address book and flip through it, marking off all the people in there about whom you care deeply. Note the people for whom you don’t have as deep an affection. Past and present lovers, business contacts, party friends, bar buddies.

Now, throw the address book away because those people are all dead from AIDS.

That exact situation has happened to three good friends of mine. There is no possible way that I could be any more informed about safe sex practicies than people who had tens of lovers, friends, and acquaintences die from a sexually transmitted disease. To presume otherwise is incredibly arrogant.

[Happy_Fun_Ball]

Oops, I just realized that gobear’s pit thread is not a response to this one. It was linked to early in this thread and I assumed, I’m sorry for jumping to conclustions… :rolleyes:

xcheopis

That is truly horrible and I am very sorry. It was (and is) bad enough dealing with the limited cases I have experience with.

Though given these facts, isn’t it important to promote safe sex whenever possible to whoever possible? Isn’t it the caring thing to do?

Whatever…

After reading gobears thread and thinking about this I can understand why tempers have run so high. I still believe that there is stereotyping on both sides of the fence here, and that we (meaning the human race, both gay and straight) has a lot more progress to make on this issue.

[sirjamesp]

*Originally posted by Esprix *
How about giving us the benefit of the doubt, here?

[Johnny Vaughn] Could someone please file this in Irony Corner? [/Johnny Vaughn]

[Cartooniverse]

*Originally posted by scott evil *
** If anyone’s in the dark, it’s people like you.- s.e. **

I have lost all respect for you as a poster here. For a community that purports to fight ignorance and be as tolerant towards everyone on the planet as ours does, I’m not sure you even belong here at all any more. I surely will view any future posts of yours with absolute distain.

Not because of your sexual orientation. Because you believe things like this.

For those of us in need of Illumination, would you care to inform us of exactly which ones of us are ** people like you** ?

You, Sir, are a chilling example of the kind of raging hatred that is frightening to bear witness to.

Cartooniverse

[gobear]

For those of us in need of Illumination, would you care to inform us of exactly which ones of us are people like you ?

’Toon, chill. “People like you” in this context refers to “condescending, patronizing buttinskis who have the arrongance to lecture gay men on a depressing fact of life that no gay man with a brain can ever forget.”

Like Xcheopis said, I’ve lost more people to HIV over the past twenty years than bears thinking about. For some busybody to presume to lecture me on the central threat that hangs over every gay man’s head every day is the epitome of chutzpah.

[Guinastasia]

[hijack]
Hastur-what is this “Gay Mafia” of which you speak? Is it like the regular mafia? Do you like, gather round in pin striped suits and stuff? Do you have a Don, or a Godfather (or would he be a Gayfather? SORRY!! I know, that’s bad!)

So do you like, have hitmen and stuff?

So much to learn…
[/hijack]

(As for the rest of this…I’m not wading through it…my feet hurt…)

[Esprix]

Rule #1 of the Gay Mafia is never talk about the Gay Mafia.

Esprix