It's a slut thing Wabbit--you just don't understand

The BBQ Pit
1

And you’re absolutely right folks: I honestly don’t get it. In this thread
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=119947&pagenumber=2 I admittedly hijacked a thread when Esprix made a comment which I found rather troublesome. Am I a jerk and asshole for posting it? Quite probably, but before y’all rush out with pitchforks and beanie babies to do me in I’d like you to consider the following points.

First, I accept that most people that I’ve run across on these boards who openly discuss promiscuity (and in particular the homosexual members) practice safe sex. I cannot emphasize again how much that is a good thing and kudo’s again to y’all for doing that. I also understand how annoying it must be to have to constantly deal with what you perceive as a barrage of unsolicited advice about safe sex in threads which are not specifically about sex. I suppose it’s analogous to having some well-meaning-yet-utterly-annoying-person who follows me around constantly reminding me to wash my hands after taking a leak, even if I’m currently posting on how idiotic the whole Middle Eastern situation is. So I get that.

Now comes the part I don’t get: why sexual promiscuity (which Esprix seemed to be advocating with his “I’m a slut” refrain) is seen as non-problematical by a significant percentage of this board. For the record (and please people, if you ignore the rest of my post at least internalize this line) I do not see this as being a ‘gay’ problem. Hell, all you have to do is turn on MTV when they’re running a Spring Break special and you can see a mobs of heterosexual couples racing around engaging in various mating rituals and nary a word about safe sex passes their lips. And you sure as hell can guess that some drunken frat guy who’s doing his damndest to remove his date’s tonsils with his tongue isn’t going to be worried about condoms when the time comes to consumate this relationship! :wink: Quite frankly, if you are promiscuous you are engaging in behavior which I find rather foolish and unhealthy even if you are practicing safe sex. Consider the following points (and I can provide cites for this upon request although most of this is available in the MMWR research reports–available on the CDC’s website–dealing with how to combat the spread of STD’s):

  1. Condoms are not, and have never, been 100% effective; they break, slip off, don’t fit, get dissolved by petroleum products etc. etc. I think the latest figures estimate the failure rate of these things as around 2%. Also, it still isn’t clear if STD’s can be spread by saliva and/or oral sex so this might be another vector of infection that a condom doesn’t address.

  2. AIDS (the deadliest of the STD’s) can be controlled, but not cured, by a combination of various drugs. Keep in mind, however, that these drugs will not work for everyone so there is a chance that you will still die of AIDS. Also, remember that these drugs have various side effects so that even if you can control the infection, you will still have to deal with a good deal of unpleasantness (physical and financial) in you life after you contract the disease. Furthermore, there is absolutely no guarantee that in the future the virus won’t mutate and this expensive cocktail of drugs will no longer be effective in treating it. Hell, for all we know there could be a form of super HIV out there right now which we wouldn’t even be aware of, much less track, until a good many people were infected with it.

  3. Now forget all about AIDS–lets assume it doesn’t exist. Did you look at the pictures of what a herpes infection looked like? No cure for that one either although it to can be controlled by drugs (again, not 100% effectively and with side effects). Syphilis? Genital warts? All of these diseases are not pleasant and can create long-term health risks for people unfortunate enough to contract them.

  4. Now lets move beyond the unintended consequences of sex and look at what it’s supposed to do (i.e. create little humans to run around and bedevil us). It’s painful (I think one of my co-workers said it best when she said that it was like squeezing a bowling ball out of a passage designed to take a softball) and the aftermath requires you to spend roughly the next 2 decades taking care of the little hellion–unless of course you don’t have a problem with he/she turning into a mass murderer or something in which case I’m firmly in favor of you being gelded… :wink: That’s a lot of responsibility for five minutes of fun, I’m thinking.

Lastly, I’m seeing a double standard here on these boards. When what’s-her-face (Esprix mentioned her name in another post–perhaps he’d be kind enough to post it here) came in here blaring about how much she enjoyed giving blowjobs etc. etc. she was tarred-and-feathered and run out of here on a rail rather quickly. I can’t say I miss her–I read one or two of her posts and quite frankly lost interest as she seemed to be rather boring. Is bragging about sex something that only men can do here? If so, why? Why do men get to gloat about how many ‘conquests’ they’ve had and women can’t without being labelled sluts and run out of town? Am I off base on this? Maybe, but that’s my perception of how the Boards operate. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander in my opinion.

Now I realize that a lot of people will look at this and say “yea, whatever, it won’t happen to me” and continue rolling those dice much like those who refuse to wear helmets when riding their motorcycles but I honestly don’t see how a few fleeting moments of pleasure can be worth these risks. Have you ever seen someone die of AIDS? It ain’t pretty folks, in fact it’s horrible. The virus eats you slowly, from the inside out. You rot, plain and simple, while you’re still alive and aware of what’s going on. It’s a death I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy, not to mention someone I actually give a damn about. So
go ahead, brag about how you’re a slut and how great you are in the sack: it’s certainly your perogative and I have no illusions about being able to change your mind by posting on these Boards. But don’t be surprised when I don’t jump on the ‘you go gettem you dawg!’ bandwagon and periodically feel compelled to remind you of the possible consequences of your actions. That is all.

2

ONly speaking on the Kay Kay issue - seemed to me (and I didn’t read a hell of a lot of them), the issue wasn’t as much as her level of enjoyment/actions etc, it was more that :

a. she seemed to post sexually themed posts for the most part and

b. She also seemed to take people to task re: their own practices, ie “if you don’t love giving BJ’s you’re doing it wrong” sort of thing.

it was this latter thing that sparked a great deal of outrage.

no comment on the rest.

3

I don’t know- I like your comparison to motorcycle riding. In my opinion, promiscuous sex is a personal choice that is made based on a person’s calculated risk, just like bike riding. It’s not really anyone elses place to judge it or “remind” either of them about how unsafe it is.

In short, if you don’t like the posts about sex, why read them? I personally don’t care for it, so I skip it. It’s not my place to say “Hey, all you slutty people are going to get diseases, etc”. It’s their choice, just like someone who likes to ride motorcycles or hangglide. Ever seen a motorcycle wreck? It certainly ain’t pretty, but I still don’t lecture riders on safety.

To each his own- if they’re not currently fucking you, I wouldn’t worry about it.

I don’t think anyone is asking for you to condone it or jump on any bandwagon, and it’s not your place to remind them of possible consequences. In short, it’s really not your business to lecture, even though it’s being posted on a public board.

Zette

4

Ditto what wring said.

As to the rest of your post, I’m not going to disagree with you, but I’m not going to agree with you either.

I think for teens, being promiscuous is a bad idea. I have a bunch of reasons for this that I won’t get into.

However, for adults, I don’t think it’s so cut and dry. If getting it on is your hobby, fine. Could it be dangerous? Yes. Should you take precautions? Yes. Is it more dangerous than ice climbing, skydiving, hele-skiing, back-country hiking, etc, etc, etc. No, probably not.

For the record, I’m NOT promiscuous. However, I still find the sanctimonious, preechy “You shouldn’t do that - it’s BAD” attitude to be reminiscent of a high-school health class, and rather grating on the nerves.

Al.

5

Sounds like somebody needs a good f… oh, never mind.

6

I think it was also because KayKay seemed to be bragging. She was acting like she was the best thing to ever happen to men who liked getting head.
(And she probably was-that was one way to get her to shut up!)

ducks and runs

7

You know, Guin, I don’t think it’s right to disparage her when she is no longer here. Why not stick to the subject at hand instead of bashing people who can’t defend themselves?

Zette

8

Yes. If you had bothered to read the thread and the one that prompted it, then you would have recognized that the comment was not only unnecessary but unwelcome.

But really, you’ve asked a two part question. The second part of your question is why is promiscuity and casual sex not belittled on this board. Maybe, just maybe, it is because we are adults here and realize that the other posters are also. Therefore, what they decide to do with their bodies is their own business.

Quite frankly, most of us don’t give a rat’s ass what you find foolish. Clucking your tounge and tell us you that you find us immoral reprobates will not endear you and we’d rather not hear it.

9

Is there a gay male out there who didn’t watch someone close to him die of AIDS. He’d have to be young, or else very rare. I worked with a gay man around 1986-1988. He was often gone one day a month or more for a funeral.

I don’t think you are telling anyone anything they didn’t know. But if you give unsoliciated advice (and you did) be prepared to be told to fuck off - especially if you are giving unsoliciated advice to someone you barely know. What did you expect, Esprix (or anyone else) to say “oh, you are so right. I’ve never been exposed to information about STDs. I’ll change my hobbies. I’ll change my life.”

10

Just because your Sea-Monkeys think you’re God, doesn’t mean you are. :smiley:

Honestly, it’s a calculated risk that most of the people taking (on this board, at least) are quite aware of. I think that jumping out of airplanes is foolish and dangerous. I’ll never do it. But I won’t try to convince someone who does that it’s something they shouldn’t be doing.

jayjay

11

Zette–I agree with you, it really isn’t my place to preach to people on these boards; I come across as a sanctimonious twit and don’t really contribute anything to solving what I see as a troubling problem (the purpose of this post is to clarify why I posted that link). I must confess however, that I’d be easier with this if such behavior didn’t have consequences beyond the individuals practicing it–i.e. infecting others who perhaps aren’t promiscuous. I guess a change in behavior has to come internally rather than externally from preachy twits such as myself. :wink:
And Jon, I’m glad you posted because you illustrate what I see as the core problem with how most of us see sex: it’s an either-or proposition. Either you’re a prude or you’re letting it all hang out. Y’all will be happy to note that I blame all this on Christianity making a sin out of sexuality and sexual behavior. :wink:
By saying ‘sex is bad’ the Church has essentially demonized a basic human need which could, if practiced in a different way, become an intense, emotionally bonding experience with another human being. For a good alternative view of sex and sensuality just check out any website on Tantric Buddhism (yea yea, I know they seem to be used mainly to give men pointers on having multiple orgasims etc. etc. but if you read the ideology behind it rather than concentrating on technique most of them are pretty invaluble). Anyway, don’t assume that simply because someone isn’t promiscuous that they’re a prude. A ‘good screwing’ isn’t going to change my (personal, I know, but to my mind much healthier) view on this subject. I guess the best way to put it is that I see serial sex–or McSex as I like to call it–as being more of an addiction like heroin rather than an experience. It’s still an individual choice, but not necessarily the healthiest one you can make. Good point though [Jon**, don’t want any prudes posting here! :wink:

12

[Drive By Observation]

I think the problem (if you can really call it that) is that AIDS activists did too good of a job convincing the general population that AIDS is a very important issue for everyone. The need for safe sex has been so pounded into the public consciousness that for many people it’s almost a Pavlovian response. There is also sometimes a bit of a mixed message – “AIDS is everyone’s problem/My sex life is my business.” It’s easy to understand how well-meaning people can differ on exactly where to draw the line.

[/Drive By Observation]

13

From the original thread:

That one had a link to a whole 'nother thread on this exact subject.

Speaking directly to Wabbit a whole page before she even showed up.

From the same post:

The post Wabbit was responding to:

And, finally, Wabbit’s contribution:

Now the thing that got people pissed off at you is not that you support safe sex. It’s not that you’re against promiscuity. It’s the way you bust in at the end of a long and bitter thread that was just finally winding down in (wonder of wonders) an amicable fashion, when you show up parroting the exact same thing that has been said by everyone involved on both sides of the debate, and acting like you’re Moses descending from the Mount. I wouldn’t dream of accusing you of posting an opinion without having actually read the thread, because I know you’re not that tacky. sub[/sub] But if you’d paid a bit of attention to it, you would have seen that everyone involved clearly knew of the importance of safe sex, that several people already made the obligatory “Wear a rubber” disclaimer, and that one of the main sources of frustration that led to the creation of that thread was that every time someone hints that a gay man might have something vaguely resembling a sex life, some straight chick pops up with dire warnings about AIDS. To top it off, the post you were responding to was an obvious joke, and you were lecturing Esprix, author of four separate threads entitled “Ask the Gay Guy” (All of which linked to in his first post, all apparently ignored by you), about safe sex. And this after three seperate posters commented on how sick they were of straight people lecturing gays about safe sex, when gays pretty much invented the concept.

I hope this helps you understand the (justifiable, IMO) ire you have caused, and helps to prevent further such conflcits in the future.

Caught on preview:

Which explains why the Middle East is such a melting pot of sex and debauchery. Oh, those saucy Muslims! Not at all like the sexually repressed Italians, or dour, insensitive French.

(Warning: Stereotypes used for ironic effect only. The author bears no ill-will to Muslims or Italians. He does, however, hate the French.)

14

Miller, I think Wabbit has boy bits.

15

Well, I’m sure they hate you too, dear. Anyway, thank you for clarifying for Wabbit’s benefit, although heaven knows if s/he’ll listen to you.

16

Well, that’s hardly an excuse.

(Sorry for the Francobashing, matt. Some lines are just too good to pass up. I don’t really hate them, although I do allow the possibility that they still hate me, regardless.)

17

Far as I am concerned;

Homosexuality == OK because no children come out of the coupling.

Homosexuals can have sex all they want, if they catch a disease and die, so be it, less people. Yes I am heartless in this matter, so sue me.

Hetros on the other hand, they have a RISK, no matter HOW SMALL of creating new life, and causing serious harm to that new life if things don’t go right. (such as, say, babies born with HIV. Sucky ass life and all that). Thus I believe in the cases of Hetros of no sex outside of wedlock.

Quite frankly just screwing everything around kind of takes the romance out of it, but then again, I am also the sort of poor SOB who thinks that laying in fields of flowers and staring at the clouds for hours on end with your SO is a good expenditure of time. . . .

::sighs::

(oh and if the hetros get all their proper parts chopped off/tied/otherwisedisabled, they can go at it like jack rabbits too. once again, if they die, to bad so sad, long as they don’t endager any innocents.)

18

I’m going to need a moment to gather my wits, particularly considering the post above mine…

Esprix

19

waitwaitwait.

Who’s innocent?
Infants?
Virgins?
People who only have one sex partner in their entire life?
People who have sex, but are romantic about it?

20

And the number one thing not to put on your application for the Nelson Mandela Freedom Award :

Originally said by Com2Kid

A few questions for Com2braincells

Do you have opposable thumbs?

Does your family tree fork?

How does it feel when the squirrel monkey finishes the maze first and gets a treat while you have to try again? It hurts when he gets all the food pellets, doesn’t it?