Note that in your latest post, Crafter, you explained that you drown cats instead of shooting them because of the “convenience.” That’s pretty appalling: you’re willing to inflict some pretty serious trauma on these cats in order to have a bit of convenience, instead of driving them down to the local shelter where at least they can have a painless death.
I think the label correctly applies.
Daniel
I wouldn’t drown a rat either – and I used to have a boa who would, on occasion, be fed rats. That, though, was a quick death for them (from what I could see, they were unconscious in a matter of ten seconds or so, and dead within about thirty). I feel no guilt, seeing as my snake had to eat, and at the time I didn’t have a frozen rat supplier.
It’s not that you wanted the cats gone, it’s HOW YOU DID IT. Drowning is inhumane.
One thing you can do for ferals is trap them and have them fixed so they can’t give birth to more ferals. Where I live, there’s a group called Project Purr which will loan you a cage for trapping the animal, and will pay for getting the cat neutered or spayed.
I’ve done this for one cat in my neighborhood, and that cat has adopted the lady next door to my house.
I understand the thing about songbirds, but I’ve always belled our cats. We live in a semi-urban envoronment with a nearby creek and lots of greeenery. The rat population is quite established here, and the outside cats keep them in check so they don’t end up in someone’s house too often. I can’t say my cats have never got a bird, but the bell keeps that to a minimum, and yet doesn’t seem to interfere with their ratting abilities.
Last year I shot a deer (doe) with my crossbow. She ran two miles before bleeding to death. She undoubtedly felt pain, and it can be assumed it was a long, agonizing death. Yet because I turned her into venison steaks, I suspect no doper will complain. (“That’s O.K., because you harnessed the meat.”) So I can only assume if I would have ate the stray cats it would have been O.K. :rolleyes:
As you can see, there is much room for debate. But it must also be acknowledged that we’re ultimately dealing with opinions here. And it’s my opinion that undesirable animals that venture onto my property are to be dealt with as conveniently and efficiently as possible. You have the right to disagree with my opinion. But I can guarantee it will not have an impact on mine.
Ha ha, your cite itself and [10] above was authored by the infamous abortion-of-a-scientist, SA Temple. You’ll note that none of the papers he’s authored appear in a scientific, peer reviewed journal (Wisconsin Natural Resources? Hey, what’s the impact factor of that one?). There’s a reason for that: They show a level of sophistication roughly equivalent to a small child who has been smacked over the head with an entrenching tool.
His 1996 ‘study’, as cited in the above link, is quite beautifully free of citations. It would barely warrant a post in IMHO.
Sadly, many of the predation ‘studies’ are very weak indeed. Often they rely on the subjective report of cat owners to build their statistics (e.g., via phone surveys; Robertson, 1998 - PubMed ). The poorly-conceived extrapolation of small sample sizes to the entire US / UK is another common flaw.
Ah look - 39 million birds, zero cites.
Source of this information? ‘Anni Simpkins’, personal communication.
Number of cases of transmission of rabies to humans by cats?
Toxoplasmosis is well known. Is its transmission preventable? Absolutely (see link). And I don’t see anyone railing against raw meat, which is another sorce of toxo.
If you actually look at the decent science, not the egregiously flawed shite, you find that cat predation is an issue in specific circumstances, i.e., small islands, and ecosystems with no endemic small predators. In other cases the effect of the cat on wildlife is usually entirely overstated, as in the steaming pile of horsey doo-doos linked by Colibri.
No, you’d still be a sick sadistic fuck… that eats cats.
I will. If you’re gonna hunt for meat, I’m not gonna gainsay you. But hunting with a crossbow instead of a rifle causes unnecessary suffering for the animals. Crossbow hunting is illegal in some jurisdictions exactly because it causes more suffering in the hunted animal than riflehunting does.
To some degree that’s true. However, whether you’re violating the law and, more importantly, advocating the violation of law is a matter of fact, not a matter of opinion.
Daniel
Bit late there, too, Sparky.
Um, Daniel, if I hunt with a rifle or shotgun during bow season, the game warden will be on my butt in no time. 
I am certainly not advocating for anyone to break the law. (If you can point to a post where I have done so, by all means let me know.) As for me breaking the law… it’s a matter of debate. But I know one thing for certain: I’ve shot stray dogs around here, and if anyone called the local sheriff and complained, he would laugh in their face.
And this is where we get into opinion-territory. Your desire to eat venison might be strong, but I say it’s trumped by the deer’s desire not to spend hours in agony.
I’ll keep an eye out, but I’m damn near certain I’ve been in threads in General Questions where people are asking animal questions and you advise them to kill animals in fashions that are illegal in many jurisdictions.
As for you breaking the law…sure, it’s a matter of debate. The drowning of cats seems pretty clear to me, and if the sherriff would laugh in someone’s face for calling them about it, then that sherriff is not enforcing the law of the land. (I won’t take a position of the shooting of dogs.)
Daniel
He may believe his actions to be perfectly justified. Just because he can appreciate that his action may have negative consequences (angry neighbors) doesn’t mean he necessarily believes it to be wrong. I really think your initial comment is a non-starter.
I somehow missed the state designation and assumed it was Palm Springs, Florida, not Palm Springs, California. :smack:
Ah, of course. Thanks!
Daniel
I don’t know much about bow hunting, but that sounds like a horrible death for the deer. Maybe you ought to use a gun next time, huh? I have no ethical qualms with hunting in general as long as the animals get eaten, but I would still think that a hunter would want to minimize the pain of the animals they hunt.
My mom’s husband grew up in the middle of nowhere. Dogs that strayed farther than a quarter mile from people’s houses were liable to be shot. I can understand that, and I am a city girl and a dog person. Having to kill a nuisance animal, I understand. Doing it in a painful, frightening, slow way, I do not.
Sorry to be tardy.
Apparently, I’m not only sick but stupid - quite unable to recall the post that qualifies here. Could I request that you be so kind as to point it out?
My stupidity is apparently profound, for I’m also unable to locate any statement about refusing to contact animal control. He’s another way in which I need you to enlighten me.
I do sincerely apologize for this stupidity, which I know must be extremely annoying to you. Here we have a thread with over a hundred posts, and I’m so unbelievably lame that I can’t find the reason I was included in the post that started it (the author of which is perhaps the most experienced and revered member of our community). How I look forward to my well-deserved enlightenment!
No, because in our society, whether you like it or not, we see cats as companions, not food.
If that was the case, why didn’t you try and shoot the deer again to put her out of her misery?
Did you recognize some of those cats as belonging to your neighbors? Did any of them have collars? Some of them may have been microchipped.
Why the HELL didn’t you just drive the caged animals to the pound? Did your children know what you were doing?
Was there a REASON you deliberately drowned most likely well-loved pets? Pets that might not even have been allowed outside, but were let out by mistake? Did your neighbors know? Did you ever see posters asking about lost cats and realize it was one of your little executions?
I stand by what I said. You are one scary SOB.
They have Bow only seasons! That is fucked up. Hey you can hunt (fine by me if you get food from the kill) and you are right to stick to the rules. But a rule that says in this part of the season you can only hunt using a method that is likely to prolong the suffering of the animal using archaic and antiquated methods. that is fucked up. Maybe their should be a spear season, where the animal has to drag a barbed spear arround until it dies of exhaustion if it is hit.
What is the best way to kill pest animals like rats?
They have Bow only seasons! That is fucked up. Hey you can hunt (fine by me if you get food from the kill) and you are right to stick to the rules. But a rule that says in this part of the season you can only hunt using a method that is likely to prolong the suffering of the animal using archaic and antiquated methods. that is fucked up. Maybe their should be a spear season, where the animal has to drag a barbed spear arround until it dies of exhaustion if it is hit.
What is the best way to kill pest animals like rats?
So it’s just dandy for non-native cats to be out killing wildlife, but it’s a big cause for concern when wildlife kill the cats?
So I guess anyone who uses a bow must be a sick fuck? Guess American Indians should forget about tribal tradition and just stop using “archaic and antiquated methods.” If properly done, a deer hit by an arrow will drop just as fast as a well-placed bullet. And a bad rifle shot can cause an animal to run for hours.
Look, I’m torn on this issue. I do like pet cats, but feral cats can be very unpleasant, both to people and endangered wildlife. I do think feral cats should be allowed to be killed in a humane manner. It is pretty easy to tell a feral cat from an escaped housecats–feral cats are mean and absolutely hate people. Though I will concede that if such legislation is passed in Wisconsin, it will give the cat-hating sociopaths an excuse to try to kill any cat they see.
Quite frankly there is no more reason for Native Americans to hunt live prey with bow and arrow for tradition than it is for Europeans to hunt boar with boar spears or venison with Bow and Arrow as such weapons are just as traditional to the European as Native American culture.
Truely any form of hunting can be done well or badly, someone who cannot consistantly make a clean kill with their weapon should not be allowed to go hunting. I doubt there are many who can consistantly get a clean kill with bow and arrow.
Deer are incapable of having any desires whatsoever.