I honestly thought it was $21mil total and thought, wow, the Yankees really aren’t afraid to play hardball. $21mil per year is ***not ***playing hardball. Nobody will match that. I figure his actual market value would be around $10mil/yr if he gets 4+ years.
Here’s some thoughtful analysis, suggesting that the Yankees do indeed (despite some heated protests earlier in this thread to the contrary) have a budget, and that Jeter’s projected salary (according to this analyst) needs to reflect a pay cut from his current level.
That being the case, I’d argue they can go even lower than he suggests–after all, if Jeter’s willing to accept a 5 Mil paycut, in respect to the reality of market values, why would he be unwilling to accept market value itself? It’s not an insult, it’s what the market dictates. The more I think about it, the more I conclude that the Yankees should let him test the market, and then match the highest bid. It’s plainly not worth it to Jeter to accept 8 million from Cincinnati if NY’s 8 mil brings in ancillary benefits to him, and no reason the Yankees wouldn’t be willing to overpay Jeter just a tad above his real market value. I’m just not seeing where he gets to double or triple his true value, just because he wants to.
Who said he is?
It’s hard to get a read on the accuracy of stories about contract negotiations, but right now it sounds like the Yankees are offering Jeter around $21 million a year, which is close to what he made in 2010. The bone of contention is said to be the number of years in the deal. He wants at least four and they’re offering three, so I’m guessing they’ll meet in the middle by settling on four.
Several people are speculating the yankees will (or should) offer 15 mil. The analyst I just cited, plus this guy: Here is Keith Olbermann’s take on Jeter’s contract, and the evidence for thinking he’s a player on the way out the door (and Olbermann’s a Yankee fan, mind you.)
The man just isn’t worth the money that some people think he’s going to get, and I think the difference betwen Jeter getting 20-odd mill (long-term, mind you, not just in 2011) and Jeter getting under 10 mil amounts tot he difference between the Yankees being able to afford another player worth 10 million dollars a year, which is a pretty good player. If the Yankees sign a non-performing Jeter and then fail to win the pennant, they will hear very little except “Ya shouldna done it.” He could be Captain Millstone for the next four years.
My Sox have done something smarter with Tim Wakefield, signing him to a renewable, big-pay one-year deal–if either side wants to pull the plug, as I understand it, they can, limiting the Sox’ damage to a single partial season of overpaying Wakefield for his past service to the franchise. That would be a good resolution to Jeter’s situation, too.
You should try reading my links, Marley–this one suggests that the Yankees could be doing themselves serious long-range damage by signing Jeter (and Cliff Lee) to long-term deals–that site, a Yankee-fan site, again, suggests they could have well over 100 mil annually tied up in five players in 2014–Jeter, Lee, Sabathia, Teixeria, and A-Rod, all of whom will be elderly in 2014, some of whom will very likely NOT be productive players. My thinking is if ALL of them are not producing star-like numbers in 2014, they will be paying top dollar (250 mil +?) but getting the performance of a team with half that budget–IOW, run of the mill, un-dominating W-L record, but still paying well above any other team. That’s a formula for a lot of unhappy Yannkee fans.
That was Wakefield’s old contract. It was a perpetually renewing team option for the same money. Before last season he signed a two-year deal and announced his intention to retire after that contract concluded.
As for the Yankees I’m surprised they are playing chicken with Jeter, but it is clearly the objectively right decision. I honestly don’t think the balance they have to strike is with Jeter as much as they can’t appear to the fans to be disrespecting him by offering too little time/money.
And of those two things I think to the team years are the bigger concern.
I understand that. But it seems pretty concrete they’re offering $21 million. Even if that’s not the figure they are discussing, I don’t think they’d go as low as $15 million. His skills are not what they were and it’s greater than his no-name value to a generic team, but I don’t see them asking him to take a big pay cut.
They’re not going to pay him the same kind of salary Edgar Renteria is going to get. The reasons for that were already explained.
Eh. I am sure they’re wishing they hadn’t given Alex Rodriguez such a huge deal since that can also be used against them in this negotiation. But it’s not going to prevent getting another player if they decide they need one.
That’s wrong. Wakefield’s last contract was a two-year deal paying $3.5 million in 2010 and $1.5 million in 2011. He’s getting a low base salary and some incentives. Before that he agreed to a series of one-year contracts worth $4 million a year with some incentives. The Yankees used that kind of approach with Andy Pettitte and it worked pretty well, but Pettitte dithers about retiring every year and Jeter’s never hinted how long he wanted to play. Wakefield also started taking those contracts in his age 40 season.
Yes, it is wrong. My bad. I was mis-remembering last year’s contract being a break from thier contracts with Wake. But those deals began, I think, when Wakefield was younger than Jeter would be at the end of a four-year deal.
Why’s this, again? Are you saying “The Yankees’ budget is unlimited” again? I thought I cited sources, including Hal Steinbrenner, saying otherwise.
Ultimately, if the Yankees win a championship without Jeter, or with an “underpaid” Jeter, their fans will be fine with it, and if they don’t win, even with an overpaid Jeter, they will be unhappy–despite the threats and fan-love being interjected into the situation. Basically, in my analysis, the dumber the Yankees’ fan is. the more he’s a Jeter-jingoist, so it’s going to be a lot of meaningless noise from that loud but dumb quarter-- I think the emphasis given to whatever leverage Jeter has on them to over pay is mostly sound and fury. They should play hardball with him, and have him make all sorts of nicey-nice noises about whatever contract he ends up signing, which will placate the majority of Jeter-wanking idiots. I’ll definitely take the under on the 21 mil, four year deal, if anyone’s offering a friendly bet on that. I say “less than 84 mil, total package.” You want the over, Marley? Remember, that what you say the final contract will be, right?
Jeter would be 40 at the end of a four-year deal, so it would be about the same.
I never said their budget was unlimited. I do think they’ll find extra money for another player or two if they need it.
I agree.
And just to contradict the ESPN cite I posted earlier, here’s one saying the team will offer him three years and around $45 million.
Alex Rodriguez?
Once upon a time. Jeter moves better laterally than Alex these days.
Here’s an ESPN piece on the absurdity of overpaying Jeter, specifically in comparison with Babe Ruth, to whom Jeter’s agent is comparing him: you might need to scroll down, if Neyer’s come up with new material since I created this link. I think “Jeter” means “to throw away” in French, so I don’t know why they won’t take that plain hint.
Here’s numbers-guru Nate Silver’s rational assessmentof the Jeter negotiations. He places the probable salary at around 15 mil for three years as well, concluding that
15 mil per years is generous since Silver puts his actual market value, off 2010, as low as 5 mil:
the 5-12 range is a starting point based on purely on-the-field contributions, so 15 mil gives Jeter an extra 3-10 mil per year for his other, off-field contributions, which seems extremely generous to me, especially since they have him over a barrel. So allthat talk of 20+ mil for more than three years–well, it just seems like crazy Jeter-fan talk to me, no relationship to reality.
But then, I don’t understand anything about baseball, nor does Tyler Kepner, Nate Silver, Rob Neyer et al., I suppose.
I don’t think anyone’s come out here are said Jeter is definitely worth $20 million or, for that matter, that they knew the Yankees would pay him $20 million. In fact, wait, who started this thread again? You know, the thread that was based on the assumption the Yankees WOULD overpay Jeter? Now you’re providing evidence the Yankees will not overpay Jeter (at least, not as dramatically as $20 million would be) so doesn’t that kind of make this discussion moot?
If it’s already coming out that Cashman is calling Jeter’s bluff, I’ll be shocked if Jeter gets a ridonkulous contract. The Yankees didn’t get rich by giving money away for nothing.
Nope 15 is still way overpaying him. Seems the Yankees have said we will overpay you 15 mill. if you can get more go get it. Then he can cripple the finances at another team. without Yankee money.
You didn’t read the first page of this thread, huh? Like post 3#, where **mhendo **told me that the Yankees can afford 20 mil, comparing them to a rich guy in a restaurant who doesn’t care how high the bill is, although he conceded that for “most other teams, you’d be right. In many cases, teams looking to pay $15-20 million for a player have to consider the effect this will have on the rest of their roster.” But not Yankees, no sir–they can pay what they want to pay.
Or post #5 where **Omniscient **assured me that the Yankees “have for all intents and purposes an unlimited bankroll” so what’s 20 mil to them?
Marley in post #13, claimed that “$20 million a year would actually be a pretty small bump in salary”–I could go on, but you’re behaving, RickJay, like everyone expressed disapproval for the thesis that the the Yankees would or should pay Jeter 20+ mil, which just isn’t so. There are multiple endorsements for the Yankees to pay Jeter 20 mil on more on page one of this thread. Read it.
I started the thread, but it was based on my notion that the Yankees would and should pay 20 mil for a 10 mil player–I based that on the analyst in the NY Times who said so. I criticized the idea of overpaying Jeter, and it turns out that that those who said they would or should, including the NY Times guy, seem to have exaggerated Jeter’s value to the team. I started out this thread asking if anyone on the Yankees understands Jeter’s value–it seems that Brian Cashman does.
You’re going to go on hating and bashing regardless of what anybody says, of course, but you’re quoting me out of context. I never said he was worth $20 million and I did not endorse paying him that much. I said $20 million was similar to his most recent salary. And before I said any of that, I said he was going to get overpaid. It’s in post #10.
But i never once claimed that Jeter is worth $20 million, or that the Yankees would, in fact, pay him $20 million. I simply noted that, in determining how much money they can spend and the consequences of spending $20 million, the Yankees are in a different ballpark from all the other teams in the league.
In fact, in my next post on the first page, i specifically noted that JC Bradbury has valued Jeter at about $9 million for an average team, but has also said that he is worth more to a top team.
I also said, on page 2 of this thread:
You’re attributing to me an argument that i never made.
And, on preview, i see that you’re doing the same to Marley23.
I will say that I thought they were going to end up paying him something like $20 million a year. I didn’t have a problem with that because I didn’t think it was going to cost them a shot at getting another player, but I also never argued he was worth $20 million a year. $15 million to $17 million a year is still more than his production is worth, but I don’t have an objection to paying him more than his value on the field. The Yankees pay more for everybody since they’re known to have more money in the first place.
Saying tha the Yankees can afford it is not at all the same thing as** they they actually will pay it**, or that it would be better idea than paying him less.
Indeed, all your quotes are merely restatements of the claim that the Yankees can easily afford $20 million a year - a fact I think is beyond any reasonable dispute - not claims that it would be better to pay Jeter $20 million than to pay him less. The assumption on Page 1 was that they WERE going to pay him that kind of money, because you started the thread based on that assumption. Everyone was merely saying “Well, they can afford it.”
But if we now know they won’t pay Jeter $20 million, nobody has been proven wrong, despite your inexplicable hinting that people were actually calling for the Yankees to write Jeter huge checks. Yes, I’ve read the thread, and over and over the sentiment is “They can afford it; he’s old and not what he used to be, but the Yankees have the money if they wanna do it.” That’s not the same as saying that Jeter is legitimately a $20 million player.