Let me be the first to say I don’t like the way you Palestiaian fucks express yourselves, by killing innocent people!
I know wrong has been done on both sides, but shit, I am at this point ripe for recruitment by Mossad, and would gladly put a bullet in your brain today. You want peace? You fuck, earn it motherfucker.
Arafat, you’re a dead man…
Umm…
If Arafat turns up dead within the next week or two, I never read this thread, okay?
Hmmm one man’s terrorist…
You could have made terrorist chrages against much of the Israeli leadership for the past fifty years if you wanted but it would not be helpful.
Yuo could do the same against the IRA leadership, with completely innocent bystanders being blown apart by bombs in public places and much of the money to finance them was raised in the US, and some of their material came courtesy of Colonel Ghaddaffi, but to keep it up would result in more deaths of innocents and no prgress whatsoever.
South Africa, the leadership of their government were virtually all considered to be terrorists at one time or another, and killing white SA soldiers and police is one thing but plenty of less justifiable people/targets were killed as well.
Killing Arafat would be very unhelpful in the current climate, even if you can find lots of reasons to do so, what do you imagine the reaction of the Arab world would be if he was even accidently killed ? It would be bound to lead to accusations of conspiracy theories and his funeral would be a huge flashpoint of emotion.
There are far more extreme views and hotheads around him who would come to power if he were incapacitated.
Yes it is distateful what he may say but the alternatives may not be any better.
Everything, as has already been pointed out, is a matter of perspective. Terrorists are usually transformed into visionaries when they get a chance to write the records.
That said, it’s an ugly situation in Isreal, and I can’t see how it will improve any time soon. Both sides want the same land, and the current leadership of both factions is unlikely to compromise. The Isreal government has just announced that it intends to abandon it’s policy of restraint. Whatever it is to us, to them, this is war.
Arafat is not a person I would, say, encourage my children to imitate if I had any, but I don’t think assasinating him would be productive. Whatever the motivation, it would serve to make a martyr of him, to further weaken the chance for peace, and to give the inferno of hatred and violence yet more fuel.
Also, I would like to point out that these two “nations” of people have been fighting over the same land for the past 5000 years, more or less. It doesn’t look like they’ll stop anytime soon.
Um…no they haven’t.
Before the formation of Israel in 1948, there had been no significant disputes between the Jews and the Arabs. The Koran has always had a mostly conciliatory attitude toward Christians and Jews, the “people of the book”.
It was the formation of the nation of Israel and the expulsion/emigration (depending on your viewpoint) of the Arab Palestinians that began the whole fuckup that is the current situation.
It’s interesting to note that most of the early Zionists were secular atheists. The Haredim (ultra-orthodox Jews) didn’t glom onto the Zionist viewpoint until after Israel’s birth, and when they did, it was with a vengeance. It seems often like most of the significant friction points over settlements are over villages that the Haredim occupied without government approval or help, but which the government won’t evacuate even though the various peace accords which have been agreed upon say they should.
It’s a messed up situation, one which I don’t think has a good guy or bad guy. Both sides have their terrorists, both sides have their saints, and both sides are basically stuck in a no-win, no-draw situation.
jayjay
Yeah, not like those noble Christian Terrorists of America who justifiably execute guilty doctors and then take the courage of their convictions with them into the forest.
There might be a logistical problem with putting a bullet into the brain of someone who just dynamited himself.
There’s a saying in Israel: “The Palestinians can have all of Jerusalem if they take the Orthodox too.” It’s the religious extremeists on both sides that cause 90% of the problems.
Haj
And what happened between 1945 and 1948?
You answered that question later in your post with:
The Koran also justifies self defense for life and property.
Unfortunately Hadith promises Paradise for those who die in that defense.
And are these not the American monetary backers?
(Don’t jump onto this as a Jews are rich statement.)
What I am saying is that richer Americans have a very strong almost overpowering influence upon the policy of Israel, a nation of poor immigrants from Europe, Russia, and Ethiopia
Oh, I agree with this, too. One of Israel’s problems is that it’s always been more than just another country to several different groups of people. The American fundamentalists don’t help in regards to mellowing out the situation, either, with the millenial importance of Israel hovering over their motivations.
But I tend to be in sympathy with the Palestinians’ motives (while disagreeing vigorously with their methods). On the other hand, had the Israelis formed Israel in the mid-19th Century, their treatment of the Palestinians at the outset would have been seen as business as usual (cf. the US and the Native Americans, the Spanish and the Aztecs/Incas, the Australians and the aborigines). Their timing was just off.
I’m not fixing blame for the current situation on anyone in particular (other than religious extremists on both sides). I just think it’s a non-soluble problem…but people tend not to like to consider those.
jayjay
Well, if we limit ourselves to documentable violence, uprisings, and what not, I’ll only go back to the 1947 creation of Israel.
Interesting note in researching this: 90% of land in Israel is owned by the State, and cannot be resold to “NonJews”.
Yeah, they’ll never get anywhere close to peace over there.
I thought we were limiting the discussion to violence between the Israelis and the Palestinians. If we’re talking violence over the area in general, then yes, it’s been going on for quite a long time. I just didn’t think that the crushing of the Zealots by Rome, the Crusades, or the Middle-East fighting in WWI and WWII were relevant to the current discussion. 
jayjay
Daemon, your heart might be in the right place, but your vengence is way off course. First, I hate Arafat as much as the next guy but he didn’t blow up the place area in Tel Aviv. That was the work of the fundementalist suicide bombers who feel it’s their duty to take out as many of the “enemy” when they go.
Yes, Arafat has done some bad things. Most of the time though, his crime has been willfuly ignoring the situation and refusing to stop those that would kill innocents. And right now it’s not even him. Take a look at the guy. Ten years ago he was a powerful force. Now he’s a figurehead who can barely hold his damn coffee mug up to his mouth!
You have to keep in mind that Arafat is in large part hostage to the movement he theoretically leads. He can’t be seen to be “soft” on the Israelis, or he will be tossed out on his ass–or taken out and shot–and replaced with somebody else…somebody who just might be worse.
The only solution to the cycle of violence over there is for everybody involved to simultaneously become reasonable. I calculate the odds of that happening as slightly less than those of me being elected Pope.
There is also a failure of leadership in Arafat himself. I seem to recall that, before Sharon came in, Arafat was offered a number of major concessions that drove the hard-liners in Israel wild. It wasn’t 100% concession, but it was definitely a step in the right direction.
For those who see the situation as permanently unfixable, one needs to recall that the same thing was said about the situation in Northern Ireland. While the IRA has not been disarmed, it seems that they’ve gone much farther than anyone would have expected in our lifetime.
For that matter, the same could have been said about the Cold War.
What it boils down to in the end is that there has to be accommodations on both sides, Jews and Arabs. Either Israel will have to expell every Arab in the country and build a wall around its borders, or allow the Arabs the same civil rights as Jews.
Yes, it does sound simple. It is. It’s how to get there that’s so damn difficult.
Pesch: Care to explain exactly how the Knesset has Arabs then?
Well heck, I know the assyrians rampaged around there eons ago, seemingly. Okay, let’s limit it to Arab-Israel conflicts.
As an American, I do not presume to understand the depths nor the solutions of the Arab/Israeli conflict.
I’m just glad as hell that Rosa Parks chose to sit on her tired ass instead of strapping a load of TNT to it on that Montgomery Bus.
And, from the admittedly naive distance of geography and history, I wish to hell that somebody over there would try something like that for a change.
I figure the Arabs outside Israel have oil money up the ass. That’s gotta mean a strike-fund that the Pennslyvania iron workers of the 1880’s could only dream of. So are the Isralis saying “okay - we’ll lock you Palestinians out and import a shitload of Russian Jews to do our scut-work instead.” And the Arabs are saying “sure - and on their day off we’ll guarantee one of our nut-jobs a place in heaven to blow these Russian kids to flinders.”
It’s about money. right? Or has a lifelong observation of Chicago politics clouded my ability to perceive the difference between Jaweh’s and Allah’s will for their peoples.
Dopers, I daresay the Israeli governmernt has a price on Arafat’s head.
Anyone for going to get him? I would be willing to share the bounty.
Allah Akbar !