OK then, what if everyone showed up for jury duty at once? Bedlam! Obviously, ditching is the Right Thing To Do.
The only time I have been called to Jury Duty, I witnessed a very silly thing during the proccess of picking jurors. A woman who was the head of Public Relations for a big local, (now defunct and closed) hospital was at the stand. The Judge asked her if she had any reason why she couldn’t serve. She began to go on about how she was invaluable to her office, and how she absolutely could not serve. The Judge was having none of it, and scolded her saying that work was not an excuse. The entire time this was happining, the woman was giving the Plaintiff’s lawyer very nasty looks. The lawyer gets up and says, “We know each other, do we not, Ms. *********?” She looks at him with contempt and says, “Yes.”
The plaintiff’s lawyer then procedes to tell the judge that, She and the hospital she worked for had been defendants in a lawsuit brought by a client of his who had sued the hospital for releasing this clients name to the press without permission as the first official Aids patient in the state. She and the hospital lost the case.
The judge looked at her like an adult looks at a dim child and said, “Why didn’t you say THAT? We would have saved a lot of time here. You’re excused.”
It was an asbestosis lawsuit. My number didn’t get picked.
Let us suppose for the sake of argument that an employee avails himself of your corporate boilerplate letter – only this time, the judge rejects it as providing a sufficient excuse from serving? What protocols do your “company rules” (i.e., your will) dictate in the event that an employee ends up having to serve on a jury against his or her will? And what if that trial manages to be a substantial one, lasting for a couple of weeks or so beyond the accumulated PTO earned by that employee… what then? Would you be of the belief that, since he is serving of his own free will and is basically AWOL from his job, that you would be within your rights to fire him, or what?
And why, in a company of some 60 employees, is the occasional jury duty faced by one or two individuals apparently sufficient to throw your scheduling into chaos, jeopardizing your government funding, etc.? God forbid the flu or a stomach virus should ever ravage your community… :rolleyes:
The company doesn’t “penalize” an employee that does his/her civil duty; they just don’t pay for it. They don’t pay employees for work not performed for the company. The only company I’ve worked for that paid me for jury duty was a 500+ employee firm. All of the small companies I’ve worked for did not- they gave me time off, but it was unpaid (unless I wanted to use my accrued PTO time, which I did).
I don’t know why this is so “unpatriotic.” Why should companies pay an additional, extra-legal “tax” to finance the judicial branch of the government? If the gov’t was serious about wanting people to work as jurors, the time would be compensated for more than the $12 per day that I received last time I was on jury duty. I didn’t get selected for the jury, but I did put in a total of 6 hours over two days- so I made $4 per hour, less than minimum wage. If I had been selected for the jury, I would have made $60 more (5 days) for about 30 more hours of work. That works out to $2.33 per hour- less than half of minimum wage.
You’re damn right there. If the government can compel people to serve jury duty, they should pick up the tab. I was looking at this solely from the viewpoint of the juror. The juror is penalized. But, if it is the government that requires, then the government should pay, not the company.
You and Yeticus have convinced me, and I have to admit **“You guys are right”. **
What is this “PTO” time you guys are refering to?
My guess is paid time off, either personal leave time or some sort of admin leave (?)
Personal Time Off. Sometimes also referred to as Vacation time. Although some employers in the US are now moving to consolidate vacation and sick leave together under the single category of PTO.
I never have and never will fire anyone on jury duty, regardless of time involved for jury duty service, as long as proper documentation of service is brought to me. Plus, my viewpoint is supported by California law:
Also, San Bernardino County has a one day(many trials)/one trial (max 5 days) service guidelines…unless you get a Grand Jury Subpeona, like my son’s Spanish teacher received and served. (go back and ready how that turned out.)
Staff ratios of 1:3 (employees:clients) must be maintained for the health, safety and welfare of the developmentally disabled being served. Yes, I do have staff call in sick, but I also have clients being sick in the usual proportional numbers. The jury duty would be an added variable in the equation that would/could upset the balance of the ratios. It is a daily juggling act when we assign the available employees to the available clients on a daily basis. Sometimes, my supervisors have to fill in for those days that we have an unusual amount of sick employees. It is a balancing act that we have almost perfected with the exception of about 2-5 workdays out of the year.
As for PTO (Paid Time Off), for our company it was the total of Vacation days, Sick days, and Personal Holidays. I used to have employees call in sick all the time and asked if I could pay vacation time in lieu of that, and other employees who did vice versa. To simplify this, I decided (with overwhelming approval from my staff) to put everything together and they agreed that if you were off for any reason, PTO time was applied for that absence (only Pregnancy Disability Leave was employee’s choice). That is why I have the current policy in place - it was a mutual agreement between me and the employees.
You would be surprised that I have a more liberal policy than most companies out here, but thats what I’ve heard from my employees who worked at other places before working for me. YMMV
Nothing like cursing myself…I’m miserably sick today…but at work. Damn you, Yeticus!..you A-Hole!
Thanks all for your answers about PTO
So, let’s assume that a member of your staff has two weeks of holidays left. He’s called for jury duty and choses to comply. The whole thing takes, say, one week. Does he have only one week of vacations left, or could he take the two weeks of vacations, one not being paid?
One week of PTO left. I do remind the person (if they have two weeks of vacation scheduled) that if they do go on jury duty, that their PTO time used on jury duty will reduce their vacation time, or I can type up a letter for them to be excused.
Remember, the employees agreed with me that lumping all of the sick, vacation and personal holidays together was much more advantageous, even if they took time off for jury duty. It’s all about the total days off (regardless of reason) with pay, rather than about what reason it has to be for being paid for time off. The employees (that were around in the days before PTO) are in complete agreement with me on our current PTO system. It also is advantageous for the company that depends heavily on good staff and client attendance. It was a win-win decision for all concerned.
OK, so in the end it was a bit anti-climactic (for most of the us, that is), although certainly interesting for a first-timer such as myself. Some 250 of us citizens were herded into a theater across the street from the courthouse, the oath was administered, statements for disqualification were heard (releasing about ten people), then pleas for exceptions heard (about fifty, nearly all of whom were turned down). All this took about two hours. We were then broken up into groups of about sixty and walked over to the courthouse, to one of the four courts in session that day.
I ended up in the 9th District Court, dealing mainly with felonies, and waited while the docket was disposed of, which took another two hours or so. Before starting, the judge ran through a well-rehearsed potted history of the 9th DC and helpfully explained a few details of the proceedings to come. Some present seemed surprised to learn that most of the cases were plea-bargained and selection of a jury was only a contingency if one or more of the cases happened to go to trial. We could have saved quite a bit of time if those clamoring to be excused had realized they had a strong chance of being released anyway. Oh, well.
On to the day’s docket. First, two juvie drug cases, both disposed of with guilty pleas and probation on suspended sentences, then adults: two felony DWI, a couple of drug cases, a breaking and entering. All were pled guilty and disposed of mainly with probation and suspended sentences, although one of the drug charges resulted in a ten-month jail term. Then two sexual assault cases; three counts against a defendent in his 60s, with the victim aged 12, and one of a single count with a twentyish defendent and a six(!) year old victim. The defendent had been ruled competent to appear, but was noted by the court to have various psychiatric problems and clearly seemed somewhat disoriented. Neither victim was present.
The first case was to go to a bench trial so we were not needed for that. The second of the two had been plea-bargained to a ten-year penetentiary sentence, but at the last moment the defendent first decided to plead no contest, then under questioning by the judge, changed his plea again to not guilty. This would normally have resulted in a jury selection but after some discussion, the judge ruled that the jury pool was tainted by having heard the initial statement of guilt, as well as other comments detrimental to the defendant, and the trial was rescheduled for a later date. The wheels of justice thus not needing any juror lubrication to grind onward, we were released and that was that.
That I can’t find acceptable. Not paying your employees complying with jury duty is arguable (I assume they receive some sort of compensation, however small), but depriving them from the right to take vacations because they are complying with a civic obligation I find loathable. I can’t assimilate such a civic obligation with an individual choice like taking vacations, and actively inciting them not to sit on the jury (by removing other advantages like vacation time) despite it not costing you anything (since you don’t pay them anyway) is, though in a minor way, undermining the democratic system.
As someone else mentionned, if you’re unable to find a satisfying solution to run your businness when one of your employees sit in a jury, how do you handle the situation when there’s a flu epidemic and several of them call in sick?
I think it depends on if they are hourly or salary. When I was hourly, I would not have been paid for jury duty (because the court also pays me, and getting paid twice would have been skanky), but I would not have lost vacation/personal time, either. Now that I’m salaried, I’m pretty sure HR doesn’t give a fuck.
Yeticus Rex is not the monster people are accusing him of. He’s been completely reasonable and open about his practices in this thread, and has expressed regrets about not being able to participate. People need to chill. Like Steve, I’m willing to take a step back.
He’s guilty of, at most, being grossly understaffed, and I’m even willing to give him a break on that, since much of his money comes from the government.
I think that, given the unusual circumstances of Yeticus’s business, he’s handling things in a very proper way.
In his shoes, I’d adopt an additional policy, because of the reason for paid vacations in the first place – they enable employee revivification and prevent burnout in dedicated employees. It would read something like:
“If an employee takes PTO for jury duty and the case for which he/she is empaneled ends up lasting over four working days, or if the employee has a medical emergency which requires use of all accrued PTO for necessary recuperation (e.g., broken leg) before returning to work, the company reserves the right to give one additional week of PTO, at its sole discretion, and at a time to be scheduled well in advance by mutual agreement of company and employee.”
This permits a long-standing and dedicated employee to get the rest and revivifying effect of a good vacation when for reasons beyond his/her control he or she has had to use up PTO on things that will not provide that effect, while protecting the company against the sorts of “it’s my right” claims that could damage it. Probably it would be extremely rare for an employee to be eligible for such a special exception, but the morale-building element of having that policy in place would, I think, be substantial.
But, if you wanted to be on the jury, wold it be illegal for you, as a non-citizen, to participate?
I’ve always wanted to be on a jury, and one of the few regrets i would have about staying permanently in the US would be not having the opportunity to be selected. If mi can be on juries even though i’m not a citizen, that would be cool!
Heartily agree.
I’ve actually got a rather funny little anecdote about this. I’m a grad student, and my adviser got called for jury duty last year. It came at a rather inconvenient time for her. It wasn’t that she couldn’t do it, just that it would get in the way of a bunch of other stuff, mainly involving the reasearch and writing of a book.
She contemplated trying to get out of it, but then decided to just take her chances. One reason was that she was afraid that the judge would ask her why she wanted to be exempted, and she would have to answer, rather ironically, “Because i’m writing a book about social responsibility.” 
Anyway, it turns out that she was never selected from the pool, and only lost a day.
The PTO time is “paid time off.” An employer is required to let the employee go to jury duty, but not required to pay them for the time- they can’t fire a person for complying with a jury summons. Rex gives his employees the option of using PTO to get paid for the time away (like most employers do). If the employee opts not to take PTO for jury duty, they won’t get paid for the time off, leaving that PTO for vacation.
Please remember that paid time off for vacation or sick time is a perq offered by the employer, not a legal obligation (in most US jurisdictions). The vast majority offer it as an employee benefit, but there is no legal requirement that employers pay an employee to go on vacation, nurse a cold, serve on a jury, etc. If an employee is gullible enough to go to work for an employer that doesn’t offer vacation pay, sick time, PTO, etc., that’s the employee’s problem.
Ah, another can of worms…the story on staffing issues here…is that the CA state government is it’s own worse enemy.
When we started back in 1992, there were two restrictions when hiring…no felons and no DUIs on file. Now in 2005, in response to abusive caregivers and other issues, the restrictions are:
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Must be conviction free. No felonies and any/all misdemeanors must be non-violent in nature. Must file criminal statement on penalty of perjury that they have never been convicted of a felony. (Exemptions can be filed if non-violent in nature, but there is no guarantee of exemption.)
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Must be fingerprinted and background searched by the CA Dept. of Justice and possibly the FBI (if something comes up…or out of state history). We pay an $84 fee for each APPLICANT (after interview, before hire). We cannot have this person hired (not even trained) until the DOJ notifies us of the background history. This has taken as little as 2 weeks and up to 6 FUCKING MONTHS (average time is about 4 to 5 weeks). There is no rhyme or reason between a person’s criminal history and the time spent on the search.
This is usually the reason why we have a tough time getting employees - the applicants (understandably) can’t wait that long to get a job with us and usually take another job sooner rather than wait…even if the job pays less. -
For our driving employees - Clean DMV record preferred. Otherwise, only one point on record allowed over the last 3 years. Parking citations and registration issues are no problem, but moving violations, seatbelt infractions, and at fault accidents are usually a dealbreaker with my insurance agent (uninsurable). And of course DUIs are not allowed, before and during employment…I have no problems with this for obvious reasons. Also, must have current license and carry insurance at a minimum $100k/$300K liability with 50K propertay damage before our umbrella insurance covers them. (A combination of state and insurer requirements.) We do pay mileage at the current approved IRS rate of .405 per mile driven to offset the costs.
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Medical screening includes passing Range of Motion, Back and Chest X-Rays and TB screenings. We pay $70-$150 per applicant here before hiring. At least our doctor takes less than a week to report pass/fails instead of 4-5 weeks like the DOJ. (TB screening is state requirement, the rest is Worker Comp. recommendation.)
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Must be CPR and First Aid certified before being hired. We impose this on our applicants, but once hired, we pay for recertifications as long as they are employed with us…usually $30 per employee. (state requirement that each supervisor is CPR and First Aid trained.)
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A minimum of 6 months working with the developmentally disabled, either from a previous job or volunteer work. (state requirement)
I’m pretty sure there are a few other nuances that I forgot to mention, but these are major things that must be followed in order to hire a new employee. Out of 100 applications sent out…about 20-30 come back, about 10-15 of those are worthy to interview and maybe 6-8 are worthy of hiring and after steps 1-5, about 2 or 3 are available to work for us.
The days of hiring off the street are long gone behind us, but it does weed out any possible illegal workers. This ain’t McDonald’s nor Wal-Mart that we’re running here.
Rysler, Polycarp, and ScoobyTX are right on about the response to clairobscur’s rash observations.
Maybe I should have started a “Ask the Social Program Business Owner” thread…bah.
El Kabong, props to you for sticking it out. How’s that boss of yours handling it now?
Just curious, but after meeting all these rigorous requirements, how much does this rare individual get paid to start?